Strengthening Your Voice of Leadership in Uncertain Times — Tina Dietz

Written by Robin Thompson on January 19, 2021. Posted in Audiobook Marketing, Blog, Leadership, Personal Development, Podcasting, Video, Vocal Leadership. No Comments on Strengthening Your Voice of Leadership in Uncertain Times — Tina Dietz

I invite you to join Julia Steele and me at the VID19 Conference and learn how to strengthen your voice of leadership in uncertain times

Hi, everyone, and welcome to day eight of the VID19 Conference. My name is Julia Steele, I'm the creator and host. I cannot believe we are on day eight already, but days are flying by and the feedback has been absolutely brilliant. So, thank you so much for everyone that has reached out to me and the other contributors. It's great to see you all getting so much value from this conference.

It's traditional in Australia to acknowledge the land that we stand on at the start of every conference. So, given we are on a new day, I am just going to acknowledge that I am standing on the land of the Wurundjeri people, of the Kulin Nation. I extend… Sorry, I, I'll start again. I want to acknowledge the land, the land that I stand on, and the people of the Wurundjeri in the Kulin Nation. And I pay my respects to their elders: past, present and emerging. I also extend that to all First Nations people that may be joining from around Australia, and overseas as well.

We are joined by the wonderful Tina Dietz. She joins us all the way from Florida. I just love that this is getting more international by the minute.

So, Tina, thank you so much for joining us. And you're gonna help us sort of explore and strengthen our voice, you know, while we lead through these uncertain times. So I can't wait to, to see where you take us with this. And thanks, again, for joining from Florida.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Anytime we can reach out to each other across the globe, it's always a privilege. So I really appreciate that.

Okay, so leading in uncertain times.

I know, Julia, you speak a lot on this as well. So, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. Just to share a little bit about myself.

I've been an entrepreneur for many, many years, many decades, I grew up as one. And I also found myself trained as a therapist. I have been in business for a couple of decades building businesses around the world, more than 20 different industries, and about eight or nine different countries now and counting.

And my company, Twin Flames Studios, works with leaders, executives, trusted brands, and entrepreneurs to help amplify your voice and your message not just to your audience, but also to your team, to new people who are looking to find you. And we do that through audiobooks. We do that through podcasting. And we also do that through what we're going to talk about today, which is vocal leadership. And a lot of people haven't heard about vocal leadership. So, I'll explain more about what that means in just a couple of minutes.

But you know, with everything going on, I'm just, it's funny, I think this is about my—I've always used Zoom a lot, my company has always been mobile so I feel very fortunate. And this time to already be in a place to help other people work with online formats, work with audio formats, because this is what I've been doing now for more than a decade. And it's… But sometimes I am on Zoom so much I question that I actually have a lower half to my body. And it gets a little weird after a while. It's like, “Do I exist from the waist down? I'm not entirely sure.” And I'm also pretty sure that the unofficial tagline of Zoom is “Zoom: Pants optional.” So I don't know if you're wearing pants joining us here today. You don't have to because you're not on camera. Actually, I don't have to either. But I am, I assure you.

But what we're gonna be talking about today, just to—And I'm super curious if you want to put into the chat, anything about what brought you here today? Where you're from? I'm monitoring the chat. So, I will definitely be taking questions as we go along—If there's something that comes up. My preference is to be highly, highly interactive in everything that we're doing here, because the best way that I can serve you is by covering those areas and covering those topics that are going to be most relevant to you. So, as we're going along, if something pops up for you, please do put it in the chat, ask questions again, feel free to introduce yourself, so we kind of know who's out there. We had a really lovely turnout for this today. And I'm excited to get to know you as well.

So how to strengthen your voice of leadership in uncertain times, and what exactly is vocal leadership, and what makes it important?

So vocal leadership encompasses a wide range of topics. And this includes

Your personal vocal mechanics—which we'll talk some about today.
The dynamics of communication
Team communication

It's present in meetings and presentations—when you're live and in person, and you can actually, you know, touch elbows, things like that. It's present when you're in online presentations like this. It is also present in your speaking peer to peer and networking. Anytime that you're using your voice, vocal leadership is present.

The two areas that we don't think about our voices being present, but they are very much present are

The voice of your message or your brand
And how you know who you are and what you stand for—and your values come through that particular modality of your voice.

And the very most important part of vocal leadership, which is your inner voice, and what that tells you, how that informs you because that inner voice that you have—or maybe it's lots of voices, as I can attest to myself. That is one of the things we're also going to discuss today is that inner voice as well as the outer voice—so meetings, presentations, sales conversations, conventions, conflict resolution, performance review, team collaboration, vocal leadership encompasses all of these areas and has a significant impact on your performance on the culture, on everything that happens.

And the two areas we're going to focus on today to help you be the calm in the storm, are:

The mechanics of some vocal leadership technique to help you lead during meetings and conversations. And these are going to be useful to you in any situation where you're the “leader”—I'm putting that in air quotes, because some of these situations, we don't think of ourselves as leaders. Certainly working with our teams or working with clients, working with freelancers, any of those areas, sure. But you may also be having a leadership role in parenting, taking on being a leader or holding a space of calm in your other relationships with friends or in the community.
And we're also going to be covering ways that you can manage your own inside voice, your internal conversations and habits about what happens, you know, inside of you as you're looking to communicate with other people.

And the key to vocal leadership is aligning these inside and outside voices, being congruent. And that's truly where authenticity lives. And if we're looking to truly be leaders, then authenticity is where we must stand as much as possible at all times.

So, when we start with the vocal leadership mechanics, there are four factors we're going to focus on today—there are far more than that. But the four factors we're going to focus on today that have been shown in research to significantly impact how you're perceived as a leader and your credibility, are:

Articulation
Tempo
Flow
Sonority

I'll say that again, articulation, tempo flow and sonority.

Articulation is how clearly you speak, how understandable your words are. And the more articulate you are—not over articulate, because when we're over articulate, we start to sound like a snob, and nobody likes that. Under articulation, of course, kills your credibility because you start to slur your words, you're not understandable, and then people wonder if you really know what you're talking about. But articulation is important. And particularly since we're talking about online meetings, and non-visual meetings, in many cases, articulation is extra important because people need to be able to understand you. And they need to be able to be very clear on what your words are and how you're speaking.

The second area is tempo. And tempo is arguably the most important factor to focus on. Tempo is your natural speaking speed. Now, I live in Florida, but I'm originally from New York. Not New York City, but Buffalo, New York, on the opposite end of the state. But nonetheless, being from, you know, that area, the Northeast, we tend to speak pretty quickly. That's a natural tone for me, I'm never going to be somebody with a lower, slower, more laid-back tone of voice—like you might find from people from the southern US or from other countries where the cadence is much, much slower. So, it's natural for me to have this slightly faster tempo. Your correct tempo is whatever is right for you. And it is, in research, in all the research studies, probably the top factor in what makes you most credible as a leader and what makes you sound most trustworthy.

This is because it has a lot to do with your breathing. Everything comes from the breath. And when we are breathing to shallowly and our voices start to speed up that's an indication on a very biological level that you're nervous, that maybe you're lying, or that you're angry, depending on how you're presenting to people.

On the opposite side of things, if you're halting and your tempo starts to slow down, then you lose people's attention. And they start to fade off. And they're not really focused on what you're saying. And that's a credibility killer as well. So, the most important thing we can do on the mechanic side of things, first of all, number one, is to focus on our breathing. Practicing your breathing—and this can be do through yogic breathing, it can be through something as simple as what I call “The 4-4-4 Breath” and this is where you inhale on a count of four, you hold for a count of four, and you exhale on a count of four. And this helps normalize your breathing, which helps settle your parasympathetic nervous system, and creates more calm throughout your body, which translates—of course—to your brain, and how you're connecting with your audience, or the person you're sitting in front of, or your child, or whoever it is that you're communicating with. And we hear about breathing a lot. But we don't necessarily always take that advice. If we take a few moments, it can make a tremendous difference in how we're perceived by other people.

The fourth factor is flow. And this is how smoothly your words come out of your mouth. This also is indicative of the dreaded “uhms” and “ahhs”. When you're a public speaker or you give a lot of meetings and presentations always tell you, “Oh, you got to watch how many times you say ‘Um,’ and ‘ah.’” The problem with that is that the more you think about “uhms” and “ahhs,” the more you tend to save them. It's like don't think about pink elephants, and there's the elephant, right? So, if you give yourself some room to let go of being concerned about the “uhms” and “ahhs,” the best thing that you can do is focus on the other person instead of what you're saying. Not on their reaction, but in being present to them, even in an audio-only situation. And we'll talk some more a little bit later about how our audio-only—when we're listening—and how audio-only actually can heighten our senses, and how we interact with that, and how we can trust ourselves and our listening when it's audio-only. When we're in a situation where we are listening to other people, focus on them, be present to them, and many times that will get rid of the “uhms” and “ahhs” because those “uhms” and “ahhs” are indicative of our own brain interrupting us trying to get us to say things a certain way, or questioning ourselves in our internal conversation if we're saying the right thing or not. We get worried about “Oh, what do I have to say next?” And that interruption of train of thought can really damage your flow.

So again, coming back to your breath, keeping yourself calmer will help your flow and help get rid of those “uhms” and “ahhs,” and increase your rate of flow for that extra boost of credibility and leadership.

And the last factor we're focused on today is called sonority. Sonority is the pleasantness of your voice. And in truth, most people, the more they practice these other factors—articulation, tempo, flow—the more you take care of your voice, the more your sonority will rise. Not everybody has a naturally super pleasant voice, but you have to work with the voice that you have. That's the only choice that we have—is to work with the voice that we have. And it's a funny thing, when I speak to groups of people—and I'd be curious as to what happens here with this audience—when I ask the question, “How many of you here like the sound of your own voice?” How many people do you think raise their hand? Yeah, pretty much nobody. About 80% of the room will tell me—on any given room—that they do not like the sound of their own voice. And this goes even for podcasters and professional speakers. Even in rooms like that, I'll get 50 to 60% of the room saying “Ehh, I don't like the sound of my own voice. I like my content, I might be able to own my identity as an expert, but the sound of my voice?” Right?

So, it takes something to get used to the sound of your own voice. And truly the only way out in that situation is through, as the old saying goes. You have to listen to yourself back and learn how to appreciate sometimes you just have to get used to it like a habit over and over again—listening to yourself doing interviews on podcasts, listening to yourself just doing recordings are around your house with your own musings, and things like that. And find ways that you can appreciate the voice that you have. Even if you are, you know, find yourself concerned about things like an accent, I'm going to ask you to let that go. Because what makes you unique is your voice.

And if you have any concerns about how understandable you are, then we go back to practicing the things like articulation, and tempo, because all of those things are going to help make your voice more understandable, depending on the audience that you're trying to reach.

So, the other factors around sonority that I wanted to touch on are two credibility killers. And these are far more prevalent in North America than they are in any other part of the world. So, I'm very curious for our audience in Australia if you see this as well. And those two credibility killers are what we call Up Talk and Vocal Fry.

So up talk is where you make every statement sound like a question. And that really makes you sound not credible. Because you make you sound like you don't know what you're doing. And that's an example of what up talk sounds like. Most people will up talk the end of their sentences when they're not entirely sure how their message is going to be received. If you're doing a live networking event, for example, and you have to give a 30-seconds “Hi, my name is so and so. And my business is such and such,” you'll hear a lot of up talk in people sentences, because they're kind of questioning how they're going to be received in the room. This is another good area to ask somebody else, rather than try to figure it out yourself, if this is a habit that you have—it's actually kind of difficult to hear if you do it in the moment, and you can practice will be called downstrokes. So up talk would sound like this: “Hi, my name is Tina Dietz, and my company is Twin Flames Studios. And we help amplify the voices of leaders and authors and companies around the world.” Sounds a little off, right? Speaking that with downstrokes with sounds like this: “Hi, my name is Tina Dietz. And I'm the owner of Twin Flames Studios, where we amplify the voices of leaders and companies and authors all over the world.” Sounds a little different when you get to hear the contrast between the two. So, you can see why that's a bit of a credibility killer.

The other one I mentioned is vocal fry. Now I have a hard time even doing vocal fry because my voice doesn't like to do it. I've trained myself out of it. But if you're familiar with the American celebrities—the Kardashians—these guys are a good example of listening to vocal fry, it makes you sent voice sound like it's a little bit bored or dismissive, because you drop the ends of your sentences down into your throat. And it's kind of a vocal fry kind of sound. You'll also hear this on American radio, on National Public Radio a lot, particularly with the male hosts on shows if you listen to podcasts, you'll hear this quite often in a lot of professional level shows. But the thing is, the reason it's a credibility killer is—and it's not with those guys who are professional hosts or even with the Kardashians—is we're not looking to take advice necessarily from the Kardashians, or from a radio show host who's doing a game show, we're looking to be entertained by them. So, the vocal fry doesn't matter for their credibility because we're not looking for credibility.

But when you take that same vocal fry, and you put it into a situation where somebody's doing a job interview, we find in the research that across the board—regardless of gender, regardless of age, regardless of race or any other demographic situation—if somebody is giving their answers in a job interview with vocal fry, they are across the board seen as less trustworthy, less credible, and less hirable. So, it is a habit that we do take try to with our leaders try to coach you out of because it can be damaging, particularly if it's done a lot. Here or there you are having a bad voice day, fine. But habitually? Not so good. So those are the two credibility killers with sonority.

Now when we're in a meeting, and you're running something with a team or you're running a program, you can keep these factors in mind. But what's more important is that you practice them ahead of time. So, articulation practicing with things like tongue twisters, and facial exercises are really important.

Tempo, as I mentioned before, the best thing you can do to work with tempo is to work with your breathing. And that tempo piece will flow over—no pun intended—over into the flow and sonority areas as well.

Listening back to yourself as the other best thing you can do for your vocal mechanic so that you can start to identify—And this is not a situation of beating yourself up. This is listening to yourself to say, “Okay, what can I add?” Or “What can I enhance?” Or “How can I create my next level?” That's the conversation that we're in. This is only a conversation between better and best, I never want to hear you beating yourself up for the voice that you have.

And by the way, we have put together a Vocal Leadership Workout for everybody that you can download. And it's got tons of exercises in it, and it also has links to some articles that I wrote for Forbes magazine, and some other places on different aspects of vocal leadership. You can download that we'll put the link in the in the chat as well at TwinFlamesStudios.com/vid19. And that's… I really, really love this vocal workout, I have all my clients do it to get them going. Because we don't think about our voice as the machine that it is, as the muscle that it is. And the neck muscles and the throat muscles around the voice are very complicated. There's a lot of people… You think about it, you have basically a popsicle stick holding up a bowling ball. That's the musculature of your neck. And it's all these crisscrossing tiny little muscles. And if you go to massage your neck or your throat, you can start to feel it like “Holy crap! That's like piano wire in there! That is really, really tight.”

So, allowing yourself… give yourself some throat massage is really, really helpful. We'll talk about that, along with some other techniques a little bit later when we get to talking about managing your inside voice, which we're about to switch to right now.

So, all of that being said about the mechanics of your voice. You know what’s really important? The inside part. Yes, it's important to have all these factors and to practice to manage the articulation. There's lots and lots of different things when we work with podcast hosts, or we work with authors who want to narrate their own audiobooks, there are a lot of mechanics that we go through for phrasing, and asking certain questions, and speeding up, and slowing down, and different listening techniques. All of that is wonderful and valuable. But if I gave you nothing else today, it would be to talk with you about who you are being when you are being a leader, and it coming through your voice that way. So this is all about your inside voice.

It's who you are, and who you are being far more than what you're saying that's going to make the biggest impact on who you're communicating with. We are wired as human beings for empathy. 100%. All the time. We are herd animals, we are social animals, so to speak. And we have these wonderful things called mirror neurons. Mirror neurons allow us to kind of see and understand or feel and understand what somebody else might be feeling. And mirror neurons and empathy kind of cuts both ways. Those mirror neurons that make us able to identify and feel so strongly when we're watching a movie, and the dog dies, or your favorite character falls in love. We feel those feelings even though those events aren't real. That's how powerful those neurons are. And that same biology is what people are reacting to when you're communicating with them, even with non-visual communication. So, for example, have you ever been on the phone, and all of a sudden your stomach drops, because you sense that something has changed without the other person saying anything. Or if you're a parent, your kids are playing in the next room, and suddenly the sound changes, and without even knowing why you find yourself going into check on. And then there's music. Our emotional state can change in an instant, just for those first couple of bars of our favorite songs. So, here's the thing.

You have that same impact on everyone around you. Every single day, we impact those around us whether we're conscious of it or not. And the opportunity for each and every one of us is—Do you want to make a conscious impact or an unconscious impact simply through how you're being? So, have you ever thought to yourself who are you being when you're being the best version of yourself? Who you being when you're being the best version of yourself think about that for a moment. And I'd even invite you now to close your eyes and see where you can feel—see what I said, “See where you can feel?” it's kind of a dichotomy there. But think about it just close your eyes go inside. Where do you feel those emotions in your body when you think about when you feel the best? Think about a scenario about when you have felt the best, maybe a peak experience is, or working with your clients, or, you know, you had a really great experience speaking, or running a meeting, or you had another accomplishment. Where do you feel those emotions in your body? And how would you identify them? A couple of places you can think maybe to check in are your chest, your throat, maybe you have this level of calm alertness. I hear that a lot from clients of level of calm alertness, like you're ready, but your calm. It's a really cool way to be.

You see, we're never taught to practice our emotional states, like we're taught to read, or throw baseball, or create a presentation. But it is a skill, like any other. Intentionally bringing up an emotional state and putting it on—like putting on a new jacket—is something that we as human beings have the absolute ability to do. And it's something that is a very worthwhile practice, because it's not so much like you have to control your emotions, but it's a conscious shifting and a conscious choosing of who we are going to be. And as a leader, this is incredibly important as an internal skill. So, let me break this down into a more practical state.

One of the ways that we train authors who want to narrate their own audiobooks, and our podcast hosts, and our vocal leadership clients to practice these different emotional states, one way we do that is to take a passage from a book—or if we're working with an author to passage from their own book—and read it in different emotional states. You know, and I'm going to give you an example right now. I've got some classic quotes queued up in front of me here. So, this is the first line from The Great Gatsby. So, I'm going to read it normally. And then we're going to try on some different attitudes or different emotional states with it. And you can try this on your own with—open a book and just try doing it in different ways. And the trick is to say, “Okay, as I'm reading it in these different attitudes, how does that feel in my body? Where do I notice it?” so you can bring it up really consciously?

So, here's the first line read straight. “In my younger and more vulnerable years, my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.” Okay, let's pick a let's pick an emotional state—let's do sad and regretful. “In my younger and more vulnerable years, my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.” Or if we can try angry. “In my younger and more vulnerable years, my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.” Right? Maybe we can try excited. So I'm really excited to share, okay. “In my younger and more vulnerable years, my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.”

Okay? So those are some different emotional attitudes. And when you're practicing this, I invite you to practice it in a big way, in an overplayed way, in an over dramatic way, so you can really emphasize. And then every time you do a different emotion and try on a different emotion, close your eyes after you do it and see where you can feel it in your body, see where it raises or lowers your energy. And just start to get a little practice doing this. Because your emotional states are something that you many, many times can choose. And this is also very helpful when you are managing people because as leaders, we tend to be “emotional Velcro”—things stick to us, and we can help it because we're empathic and we care. So, you might start out your day feeling really great, and then help people through a whole series of problems, and then by noon, as you're taking a break, you make time to take a pause and go “Okay, is anything sticking to me that might be somebody else's?” Taking a few deep breaths and blowing it out. So, when you kind of clear yourself, there's some different ways that you can kind of clear yourself throughout the day. And clearing yourself throughout the day is super important because of this “emotional Velcro” state that we go into. And because we can shift emotional states, as quickly as we want to. We tend to be—if particularly if you're a coach, if you're speaker, if you are a conscious leader, and you're out there working with people, you've probably been on a ride with people through this empathic state that you have every day. And so, it's important in between times, to take care of your vocal leadership. To pause and see what your internal voice is telling you—has something anybody said to you kicked up an old belief maybe of something that, you know, kind of mirrored off of a client or a colleague, that you need to take a moment to shift? Or maybe someone had something really dreadful happened to them, and even though you didn't totally take it on, there's a little bit of something you need to process.

There's a couple of different vocal techniques you can do to release some of that stress physically, that then translates again to your nervous system and help you bring back that balance or that homeostasis, that internal / external voice congruency that we're looking for. And one of those is something that I mentioned a little while ago, which is throat massage. The throat is a very vulnerable area for most of us. It's not something we allow people to have access to, you know, you touch people on the shoulder, you touch people on the arm, you might even touch people on the knee, give them a hug, but somebody touches your throat? This is a very vulnerable space. So, giving yourself a few minutes to give yourself a little bit of a rub, or slide your fingers particularly up in this area on the bottom of the jaw. Thumb presses—thumb presses down the side. There's a massive muscle that goes from the bottom of your ear all the way down to the throat called the Sternocleidomastoid—say that five times fast. That's a big muscle that also is related to TMJ. So, if you have any jaw issues, sometimes massaging and giving some attention to that big muscle will be a relief for you. So that's one thing you can do to relieve some stress in that area. The second one, I also alluded to, and that is blowing it out. But I also like to refer to it in honor of my grandmother as “The Italian Grandmother Sigh.” And so, this is again, something that helps activate the relaxation part of our nervous system, and it's simply taking some large deep breaths and allowing a sound to come out on the end. So just “Aaaaaaahhhh.”

And I remember my great grandmother sitting in crocheting in the afternoon, and every so often, she would just let out this deep sigh. And I realized years later that that was her way of just releasing tension. She wasn't trying to get attention, she wasn't being dramatic, anything like that it was her body just even unconsciously, just releasing some of the tension that she was going through. So that's another very simple, very, very easy technique that I would recommend.

So, in particular, before you go into meetings, check in with yourself and see what you might need. It's very, very easy for us to get caught up in the doing. But it's the being that allows us to stay on track and go with the flow and be the biggest help of those other people that we interact with and that we lead.

One of the questions I get asked by leaders a lot, is “How much should I share personally with my team, how open or vulnerable is good to be?” Now this question came up long before we were dealing with the global situation we're dealing with now.

So, let's go back to our example of being in an online meeting or a conference call. And so, let's say you've been conscious of your way of being and you're bringing a good version of yourself to your phone call. You are ready to listen to people, your empathy is turned on high, you feel good, you’re breathing, your tempo and articulation are natural and flowing for you, and you're kind of embodying this calm in the storm for your team.

Now as you start your meeting, what many leaders are reluctant to do, but is extremely important to do particularly in times of uncertainty and difficulty is—it's important to acknowledge any elephants in the room. These concerns or issues that your team might be dealing with, but maybe they're reluctant to bring up. So, you as a leader holding a space for what we call clearing is going to help your team be fully present and deal with the task at hand and focused. So, regardless of the way you have this clearing—and there are several ways to approach clearing, I think there are going to be a little outside what we have time for today. But the point is that your role is to model what we would refer to in storytelling as telling the story from the scar, not the wound. Telling the story from the scar, not the wound. So, here's how that looks or sounds. This is where you acknowledge what you may be feeling or going through that's impacting you. But keeping in the clear state of being that you're holding from the team.

So, for example, you might share at a time like this “No, overall, we're doing pretty well, I have to admit, something that's on my mind is my elderly parents live far away, and my mom has some issues with her lungs. So, I have to admit this is causing some stress. And I'm grateful to be able to be in contact with them. And I know they're taken care of, but it's something on my mind. So, I'm just saying in this clearing that even though that's on my mind, I'm going to set that aside, so I can be fully present with all of you.” So that's telling the story from the scar.

If you were to tell the story from the wound, and you've probably heard this in meetings, it might sound something like, “I'm really worried about my mom, I don't know what I'm going to do. This whole thing has gotten me so stressed out, and Oh God, guys, I'm so sorry. But I, just you know, I'm having trouble focusing. And I know this is really hard for everybody.” That's what telling the story from the wound sounds like and it creates a totally different energetic scenario in a meeting. It's definitely something that's going to impact your team. They're going to immediately feel that, and then they're going to be reacting doubly, because not only are they then worried for you. They are—instead of an area being compassionate, or empathetic with you, which is you would they would hear and react to the first way—now they're going to be worried. And they're going to have their own worries on top of it. And then they're worried that you're going to freak out and then they have to carry the burden. And then it's going to spiral.

So, telling the story from the scar, not the wound is the primary cardinal rule, I want you to remember, when you're thinking about how to deal with being the leader in conversations that are challenging, times of high stress, high uncertainty. You are there holding the space. And that's why it's important, you know, not to go from meeting to meeting as much as possible but to leave a little bit of space in between even if it's two or three minutes. To regroup, check in on your way of breathing and being and get your nervous system in homeostasis before you walk in, with that your voice intact, with your being intact at the same time. So, modeling this leadership behavior is super powerful for any team to keep people focused, clear, and also feeling connected to each other and to you.

So, I am known in the circles that know me as a bit of a fire hose on this topic and whatnot and give a lot of information and a lot of topics. And I do just want to remind you that a bunch of this, and these tips are written down in the Vocal Leadership Workout I mentioned at TwinFlamesStudios.com/vid19.

I want to pause for a minute before I lay on any more, and just see about questions, and opening up the floor for comments, and things like that. So, let's take a look here. Oh, this is very cool. We got Canada, Melbourne, Australia. Oh, good to know Australians very commonly use up talk. I yeah, I have my I have several Australian colleagues and I haven't heard of them. So, I have been curious about that.

It's pretty, pretty common in the media in particular. So, when you're watching the news—

Really?—

We talk, and we talk, and we talk, and when we go up at the end, and everything's great.

Very common in Canada as well, as well as the Midwest of the US. But really, it's a human thing. Yeah, it's very much a human thing. So, I'm very curious in all of the info I just threw at you guys, any kind of questions you might have, or if you'd like me to go deeper or clarify on any particular topics. And while you guys are typing, I'm going to go ahead and put that link into the chat.

If you've got any tips, or if I can check out your website, because I find it takes me a while to get my voice warmed up in the morning.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And is there things on there that I can—even now like I'm talking to you, I'm like “I could do with some more cup of another cup of tea or some honey or—“

Definitely. Yeah, those are those are all good things. Yeah, there's a bunch of things in there.

One of the things we can definitely use gargling with warm salt water is really great for breaking up mucus, particularly, excuse me in the morning. Another thing we always tell folks, if you're going to be doing a lot of speaking, of course, stay away from dairy, citrus, and if you can stand it coffee—I usually ignore that last one. And so those all are things that tighten the voice. Yeah, any kind of really heavy meals. Anything that's going to kick up your stomach acid—if you tend to be sensitive and all of that—may impact the quality of your voice or the stamina of your voice. If you have stomach acid coming up, it's going to erode your—it's going to make things more tired.

Sleep is another big one. You can usually tell if somebody's tired by the quality of their voice. Their energy is going to be a little off, they're going to be a little slower, they may start to “uhm” and “ahh” again. So, sleep as much as possible is really a good thing to take note of. And that throat massage I mentioned before, is important.

I'm a big fan, I drink a lot of tea. So, I'm usually get some sort of tea, yeah, ginger, tea, anything herbal tends to be good for the voice to kind of keep things going. Some people have some issues—and sometimes it's just the day—with mouth smacking noises or that kind of mouth click sounds, which is super annoying. And so, if you know that you are somebody who has a tendency to do that, a trick from the voice acting world is to have a bite of an apple, or particularly a green apple. And there's something about the pectin and the acid in the apple that helps to alleviate that mouth smacking noises. Many times, if you go into a professional recording studio, you'll see a bowl of apples on a table. And most people don't know why that is. But it helps to alleviate that. Chapstick is also helpful to have for that. But sometimes water doesn't do it. It's another thing you got going on. That also does point to dehydration though. If you get a lot of mouth smacking noises, chances are you have some dehydration. Speaking of which…

I think it's such a fascinating area, like you said, your comment around, we've got something quite thin holding up a whole bowling ball. And I never thought about it like that. But if anyone's got any questions really encourage you to put them in the chat. Tina, I think I've become more aware of my voice, the more I speak. And particularly having sat on this conference now for what eight days I can feel my throat—

That’s a big job—

Getting a more of a workout than it would normally do. So, thank you so much for sharing your insights. I've already opened your link that you popped in the chat. So, I'll be downloading some of the cool leadership stuff too. So yeah, it's, it does make a difference. And even just listening to you reading that same sentence with different emotions is actually… Yeah, actually, what do I want to come out?

What do you want? What do you want to come out?

Yeah. So, we're working with authors who want to narrate their own books, we'll practice with them, like “What's the way of being that they want to come across as?” And they're kind of amazed when they listen back to themselves, how their voices, how it lands with the listener. Yeah, and sometimes it's not what you expect, sometimes, a more gentle approach is not the best thing. Really just depends on what you're looking to convey. Sometimes a much… You can go way bigger than you thought you could. And that's good news for people like me with, you've always been trying to like not, you know, overwhelm people with our big personalities and all that.

When you're working with audio, or you're working with a medium when you're not in person, many times you can go bigger than you can when you are adding that physical element to it. Not on a stage—stage, you can go really big as you get a big room and all of that. But, you know, if you, I'm sure you've been in networking events where somebody is just like, “Hi!!!”, you know? And they're just really big, and in your face, and all of that. It's “ahh!” you know, personal space. But online, we have a lot more room for people to get in our face, because they're not really there. There's a bit of separation, kind of an energetic level, and also, in our personal space. We don't have any kind of automatic—necessarily—any automatic reactions to someone coming that close to us physically. And again, that's very cultural. Some cultures have very, very close physical space, some it's way further out. So, the online formats do make it more flexible in that particular sense.

But we're finding a lot of teams—and particularly in corporate—are even doing just audio. And there's a lot of advantages to doing just audio meetings. One is it changes the way that you listen. You don't get triggered by people's facial expressions, you really just have to listen to what they're saying and how they're being. The second thing is, is you're not worried about, like, you and I are on camera right now, and you know, we're a little bit crow-like. Sometimes we're like, you know, checking our stuff. You know, am I in the right position? How’s my chin, you know? All of that kind of stuff. So, it helps to relax the people in the meeting. I was just coaching someone who runs a PR firm for executives on running online meetings, and taking their live meetings on to Zoom and audio format. And one of the things that we talked about extensively was, video / no video, and we decided on no video, and she got a lot of feedback afterwards about how comfortable that made it for people to not have to worry about their background, or if they've done their hair, or if their kids were around or you know, especially in the circumstances we're in right now. And that really allowed them to just be present with the content. And they were, you know, she was interviewing Fortune 100 CEO, you know, and normally you do want to like, look your best and all of that to be in something like that. And they could just like, you know, be in their jammies if they really wanted to, and still have this professional conversation.

So, I really think that audio-only formats for online meetings is highly underrated. I work with the majority of my clients—and always have coaching clients, consulting clients, podcasting, audiobooks, vocal leadership—primarily via audio only, so that you learn and you actually train that listening, because there's so much that you can pick up. And it gets quite fascinating once you practice it for a while and you're not relying on the visual cues anymore, what you can hear, and then start to trust your intuition and ask questions of people—

Yeah—

To get that.

I've been wearing my air pods for every session for the same reason because it blocks out all of the atmospheric noise. We have some pretty chatty parrots in our yard, and cats like to meow, and all of that sort of thing that we don't have in an office either.

So, Tina, thank you so much, sending so much love, and thanks from Melbourne. If you're ever in Australia, please let me know. And next time I'm in the States—

Tina Dietz

I will pick you up on that.

Perfect. Thank you so much—

Thank you so much, Julia. Thanks everyone.

Thank you.

Interested in learning more about how you can strength

your vocal leadership in uncertain times?

Executive & Corporate Podcasting Trends & Applications – Tina Dietz

Written by Robin Thompson on January 5, 2021. Posted in Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Podcast, Podcasting, Sales, Video, Vocal Leadership.

Presentation for PodFest Global 2020

Chris KrimitsosI've known Tina for quite some time—she actually was very active in our local group and has helped quite a few of us. And she's gotten into the B2B niche. So, Tina, if you'd like if you want to just share your screen, and then we'll open it up to Q&A.

Tina DietzYeah! Sounds good.

So, the floor is yours.

Why thank you.

Hi, everybody! Thanks for joining us here today. I'm excited to talk with you. And I'm not much of a PowerPoint fan, but I'm gonna do my best here.

What I'm really excited about, though, is just having an opportunity to talk with you all, and have some Q&A afterwards, because this is an area—Executive and Corporate Podcasting—that I got into… Well, I started talking about it about five years ago now because I was in podcasting, and looking at podcasting trends, and where I saw it was going, I knew it was going to take a while for larger organizations to get into podcasting.

But, like with any trend, it was almost inevitable that it was going to happen.

So, let me back up and share a little bit more. It's really about how to give a nameless, faceless corporation human personality. And this is about half my more executive team. And what we do at Twin Flames Studios is we amplify the messages of trusted brands of leaders, sometimes really well-established entrepreneurs. And we do that in three ways:

Through full-service podcasting, getting things going, very high touch, kind of white glove, concierge service, podcasting, and ongoing production
I, one-on-one, work with executives and CEOs on vocal leadership—which I'll touch on a little bit later when we talk about podcast guesting
And we also do nonfiction audiobooks. Full production, publishing and distribution.

So everything audio, to get your voice out to millions of people.

And I've been building businesses for more than 20 years. I started my career as a therapist, but I grew up as an entrepreneur. And I never met a microphone I didn't like, I say all the time. So, eventually what happened is, after building businesses in about 20 different industries in eight different countries over the course of years as a consultant and a coach, I felt this pull towards doing more with podcasting, doing more with audio, that was where my heart was.

And I had this epiphany that if I could work with enough leaders, who are doing enough amazing things in the world with low hanging fruit like podcasting, and audiobook—some of the lowest hanging fruit for people to start to change their lives—then there was a good chance, you know, what was important to me, I can make a bigger impact in the world, leave the world a better place than I found it.

So that's why we do what we do. We have a global team. We've got folks overseas, we get folks here in the US and Canada, Portugal, Scotland, and I adore my team. So, I love to show them off whenever I can.

So Corporate Podcasting trends—how and why are companies using podcasting.

And like I said, most companies are—well, they're familiar with what podcasting is. But getting it into their own systems is a little different. Because how corporations handle their marketing is quite different than how entrepreneurs handle their marketing. And this was actually a learning curve for me, being a very pure entrepreneur. With all the businesses I've owned, I actually don't come from a corporate background at all. It was my ability to be flexible, and for my company to be flexible, that has really made this work in the corporate and in the B2B space.

So, what we found is that companies are using podcasting for a number different reasons. We're going to break it down, but they're primarily using it in three different ways and wanting to use it in three different ways.

So External Podcasting, which is the type of podcasting, of course, we're all the most familiar with, out into the universe available to everybody. Internal Podcasting, which we'll go into a little bit more, that is when a podcast is only available to the people inside of a company. And Podcast Guesting.

Let's break down these three—and I'm going to move through these slides as quickly as possible so we can get to the juicy meat of the matter talking about what you're most interested in and how it can serve you best.

External Podcasting, of course, they're generating brand awareness. If you look at the research on sticky branding or sticky advertising—it means when it's not directly an ad necessarily, or maybe it's something more narrative of a mention or it's a brand that gets featured in a podcast—that really is the stickiness that sticks to people. And so, they find that with podcast advertising or podcast branding, people who listen to podcasts are about 70% more likely to do business with a brand mentioned on a podcast or a brand offering a podcast. So, very important.

Attracting new clients and customers is what most of us are trying to do in podcast and podcasting on the business side of things. So, in this case, we're not talking about narrative podcasting, we're not talking about NPR style, business podcasting. That is a trend and I think what some of the people who do it best are “Pacific Content” out in Vancouver—they run Charles Schwab's external podcast, they run Facebook's external podcast; I had the pleasure of interviewing one of their executives recently, and I have tremendous respect for what they do. But every one of those episodes is tens of thousands of dollars in production, because it is a full-time, massive deal.

So, most of the podcasting we're seeing externally, with corporate, with B2B, is not quite in that range. We can—we do see that sometimes in enterprise level companies, like Facebook, like Charles Schwab, some other large, large corporations. But companies that are in, say, the three to $35 million range—some of them maybe even considered, you know, small to mid-sized business, rather than super large corporations—they're really looking to expand their presence in a way that allows them to keep their humanity. You know, remember a lot of these are well established businesses, they're used to doing their marketing and their networking, face-to-face or as we say, belly-to-belly. And so podcasting is very appealing to these companies, particularly at this time as they're having to pivot and still wanting to keep the relationships, in their marketing, in their networking, and particularly creating relationships with industry influencers to widen their professional network.

Very rarely do we ever find that if you reach out to somebody and ask them to be on your show, or any of our companies, they reach out to an influencer in their industry—lots in finance, in particular that we work with—that somebody turns them down. It's basically “Hey, would you come and have a really friendly conversation with me for half an hour about things you're most interested in and passionate about?” Not a hard sell. So, our clients get really thrilled at having this media platform to share, that allows it to open doors for them.

And of course, that leads to creating collaboration. My favorite, favorite value out of B2B and Corporate Podcasting is what happens after the interview. Yes, there are audience members; yes, you have downloads; yes, we have, you know, growth. And we're generally not looking at podcasts that are necessarily in the thousands of downloads per episode, because we're looking at very niche podcasts. And we are also looking at the collaboration and the relationships that happen with the guests—between the guests and the host between, the guests and the company—as these podcasts come along. It does improve SEO to the websites. SEO is one of those things that seems like more magic than anything else these days. A lot of the things we all knew to do years ago with meta tags, and keywords, and all this other stuff… It's really kind of gone away and really gone the way of organic.

So, corporations are using the podcast to generate long form content that can then be repurposed into transcript-based articles on their website—which are fantastic for SEO, particularly paired with a few other important pieces. So that's External Podcasting—the main reasons and why—we're seeing for External Podcasting.

Internal Podcasting is another animal, and this is a rising area. It's just starting to come forward and flourish a little bit, particularly in enterprise-sized companies. So, this has more to do with development and reinforcement of company culture. Culture development is key to things, like you know, making sure that things actually get done. Efficiency, particularly now that everybody is working from home, or so many people are working from home; it's how we can create a little bit more glue, and have people not feel quite as alone or lonely.

And it also really helps to prevent things like screen fatigue: if you can listen with your earbuds while you're doing the dishes, or taking your dog for a walk, you don't have to be staring at a screen like you are all day for regular work. And screen fatigue is a real thing—it has shown to decrease productivity, it increases a certain number of health risks in a big population. And corporations are always looking at corporate wellness inside of their corporate company culture. So, this is actually more to it than meets the eye when we think about culture.

It's also great, of course, for dissemination of important information. We're moving fast. There's a lot of town hall meetings that happen inside of companies, or they're rolling out new products, or particularly with some of the companies we work with in the pharmaceutical/healthcare side of things, everything's changing right now with Coronavirus, and people need to be kept in the know. Podcasting internally is a way to disseminate that information in a more intimate way than a newsletter. And also in a more human way, than they’re used to, you know, providing this, you know, very kind of cold, documented information. We're still seeing people doing everything written, but adding on the voice, adding on the relationship, and the warmth.

Also, to educate and inform teams, particularly sales teams as they're rolling out new products, features of those products, how to sell them, who to sell them to—issues that might be coming up talking about your sales numbers. A lot more interesting to celebrate your wins, by meeting your sales goals over a podcast and to hear somebody announcing your name—it's like “Hey, a big shout out to John Smith! And, you know, Amelia, for you know, blowing away the sales numbers this month, you know, make sure when you see them in the hallway today, you know, give them a shout out, send them an email.” It's great to hear that. That celebration, acknowledgement of achievements is a really, really big one—who doesn't love to hear their name being mentioned by leadership, right, or being interviewed?

And the sharing of stories and inspiration, particularly Leadership Development. Leadership Development is the biggest area we're seeing for internal podcasting, and in internal employee resource groups. And I'll talk about a specific example in a minute about that.

So, I wanted to dive in and talk about a couple of specific instances where we can see how Corporate Podcasting is being used, you know, directly. And so, we have been working with the folks at Tri-Merit. They're a corporation outside of Chicago, and they have a very, very niche business. They had no marketing team up until about a year ago, and their marketing team actually contacted us to help with the podcast. They find R&D tax credits for technology companies. Can you hear the crickets, thinking about how you would create podcast content about this?

But what they do mostly, is they have relationships with CPA firms. That's where they generate most of their business. And they are passionate about the world of public accounting. Again, not something I would ever find myself naturally drawn to be passionate about, but these guys are thrilled, and finding the stories in the public accounting world that are unique, that are interesting—they're getting them out there. And they're using this as a beautiful networking tool. You have never seen a more excited group of folks talking about public accounting than these guys. And they do fantastic work in the world. So, this podcast for them has been the hub of their content marketing, allowing them to then create social media, allowing them to then follow up with their guests afterwards, and generate collaborative opportunities, generate other guest speaking opportunities. All kinds of networking happens when the host or their team follows up with these guests after the fact.

Now let's talk a little bit about Internal Podcasting. I have to talk about the Podcast Inc. conference, which is going to be online this fall. And I don't know if any of you know Jennifer Crawford. Jennifer Crawford is the founder of DC PodFest. And you know, Jennifer and I have known Chris for years, and know the folks from She Podcasts for years. And there's this wonderful collaboration and cross promotion that happens in the background with all of these podcasts’ conferences, which I love. And Jennifer saw a need in the industry to have a one-day conference specifically in this area, because it really wasn't being addressed a whole lot of places. It's very, very niche.

And so, what we did when we moved the conference from May to November, is—I went out and I said, “Jennifer, why don't we do a limited series podcast on Internal Corporate Podcasting and use this as a lead up?” So, this just came out about two weeks ago. And we're just ramping up the promotion of the conference. But if you want to look up PodcastInc.co/podcast, you can find this and listen to these episodes from different aspects of the Corporate Podcasting world specifically talking about Internal Podcasting, but also Corporate External Podcasting sneaks in there as well.

So then we talk about things like security and the use of a podcast intranet. One of the biggest issues for Corporate Podcasting is security. And so, platforms like PodBean, Blubrry, and Libsyn all have internal podcasting capability, and you have to find out what works for you. What we're finding is that these corporations want to use their already existing intranet to disseminate podcast information. And that's actually what we're doing with the folks at Novo Nordisk right now developing an internal podcast with them, for their women in leadership employee resource group. And what's cool about that is, as we're getting further into the process, the folks from the women in leadership resource group are reaching out to the other employee resource groups to see about developing a collaboration so that the podcast can live over time.

It's a very different development art—for those of you who work with podcast show development—then an external podcast. It's a much slower process, for the most part, and also there's a lot of little baby steps. So, what we've learned in this process, in the back end, is just to let things play out and have some patience. But people are really, really coachable, really, really interested in learning, and very excited about making their workplace better. So it's very, very cool.

One of the ways we're using podcasts a lot in corporate, both Internal and I'll also reference back to External, is Limited Series like this podcasting. Podcasting doesn't have to go on forever: For companies that feel like it's a high risk to commit to a full year or an ongoing podcast, we work with them on a limited series. A to 10 to 12 episodes to start, and we say “You know what? If this doesn't work out for you, if you don't feel like you want to keep going, then you've got a really great marketing asset and a series that you can use.” So, we always bring up seasons, we always bring up limited series podcast, and we find that most of the time when they get into the groove, they do want to keep going.

We also see in Internal Podcasting, the use of External Podcasts for internal purposes. So, you can repurpose the material you're sending out to folks, and make sure that your team, you know, is actually getting that information. And we're starting to develop databases of podcast information for say a group of financial advisors to then be able to keyword-in and then send out articles, and podcast episodes, specifically to their clients and really use the podcast as a resource.

Podcast Guesting—we're just going to check on this real quick. This is some of the companies that I've worked with, some of their executives, in one capacity or another around their vocal leadership and/or Podcast Guesting. And so, Podcast Guesting, we're finding a lot of usage for executives who are looking to set themselves apart, to have third party credibility, to develop their personal brand, and to do personal leadership PR, which is different than company PR. I work with a wonderful company out of Manhattan, and they help leaders get their leadership profile amplified. And we do a lot of work with their folks around getting them prepared to be on a podcast knowing that they can have this laid-back intimate, conversational relationship. They're not teaching, they're not reporting. They're in a relationship with the host. And we work with them heavily on their storytelling, so that they're not boring guests. And they come across as the people they really are, which is warm and professional, and really out to make a difference in the world. And that conversational interview style and format makes this possible. So, Podcast Guesting we're seeing a lot of rise in the director and above level of executives in corporations.

Okay! 20 minutes.

So all right, and I wanted to leave 10 minutes for Q&A, and seeing if there's any other examples we want to talk about if we want. You guys can go to TwinFlamesStudios.com/PodFest—I've got a bunch of materials for you there. I'm not a funnel girl. Don't sell things via email. But I do have our Vocal Leadership Workout, our package on How To Be a Guest and more podcasts, and some additional articles on Corporate Podcasting that we will just send you in an email if you go to that particular link.

That's it.

Awesome, Tina. So I’ll put it back to speaker view, if you could just unshare for a second there.

You’ve got it.

Alright, so we have a couple questions. When it comes to Internal Podcasting within a corporate culture, how do you know what to charge? Is it per minute, or? Because you're dealing with very big companies—like how do you figure out what to charge?

Yeah, so with these large companies, we're generally not dealing with the umbrella of the company; we're dealing with a small section of a company. So, these Employee Resource Groups have their own budget. So, the first thing is to find out what are their budgets to work with. They don't have tremendously large budgets, and if you can work with them—I usually work with them on a consulting basis and then go from there. Because many times they have internal resources even to do the editing and things like that. They need to know how to get things going.

So, an internal podcast, is that open on an Apple feed? Or is it, you know what I mean, so it's internally?

Yeah, so these are being—

How do you set them up? I'm just curious.

Well, it's actually, again, because these are larger companies, they want to handle the tech themselves. So, it's really a matter of teaching them, showing them how to create the content, how to manage the workflow. These are a lot of things we do, you know? Conceptually, how do you internally market a podcast? And then it requires interfacing with multiple departments to actually find, you know, work with them to get the show loaded up onto their intranet. Like I said, there are the—

That’s right, they all have Internet and MI Departments, computer guys, you know, people.

Yeah, yeah. So, it's a different animal, you're not going up on a hosting platform, unless they do want to use Blubrry or PodBean, or Libsyn—are the big three right now that have Internal Corporate Podcasting platforms. We're gonna see that happen more in mid-sized companies that don't quite have intranets, but still want to have control and security.

So then you're seeing that… I found it interesting you're seeing a lot of C-Level executives wanting to grow their brand by going out on other podcasts—you're seeing that?

Yeah, there's an interesting point in an executive’s career—you're rising up in these in these large industries, you know, they've distinguished themselves and they've kind of hit a certain level and to go from say, what we call a Director Level executive, into a C-Level executive really requires distinguishing oneself with Thought Leadership in some way.

And so, Podcast Guesting is a way to distinguish oneself on Thought Leadership, that is outside the company. You know, there's an old saying that says, you know, “it's hard to become a hero in your own hometown.” So, if people know you really well, they think they know you. Well, if you're out there, and all of a sudden, you're on a podcast or a bunch of podcasts as a guest, that gives you a third-party credibility in your leadership and your development of your Thought Leadership. This is usually paired with a whole package of executive PR, of articles, or press releases, or other types of materials, that kind of all go together to help develop somebody's leadership. Getting on Boards of Directors is another really big thing. And when boards go out and research potential candidates, one of the things they look for is have they done media, and most of these folks haven't done any media because most of the media that's taught at a corporate level is high pressure crisis media.

You’re right, “how to protect yourself when everything hits the fan.” That's true. There's no… This is a… I have to tell you… This is… The more you talk, it's like the beginning of a new era, because you're right, the C-Level executives are only trained, “Don't talk to media, unless you talk to your PR department before you go out there.” Now, they're being proactive, and they're interfacing with podcasts. And I guess they also have to build their personal brand, because who knows how long they'll be an executive with that company till the next one. And, you know, there's—

Yeah, there's a fair amount of mobility and talent even, in these times, you know, top talent is something that companies are always looking to retain. It's a big issue. And we find that podcasting is a way to really bring out their voice not so much in a technical way. Working with the executives on their storytelling is one of my absolute favorite things, to have them go from this kind of teaching reporting style, that they're used to doing in meetings and things like that, and kind of teasing out the humanity. And the really cool thing is that once they learn that, now they're bringing it back to their teams and having different conversations with their teams. And that's what we go deeper into Vocal Leadership training.

So, this is really a cutting edge field of consulting, if I hear you correctly, like a media training, which they always have, but on the podcasting side, and you're at the forefront of it.

Yeah, I'd like to think so.

No, you are I mean, it's only going to grow as we move forward. What trends are you seeing with corporations and B2B type stuff? So, there's Internal Podcasting going on, you're doing external facing… Any other trends that you see? Obviously, they're trying to build their PR cred by going on other podcasts shows—

Yeah, what we're seeing a lot is that the internal marketing teams in these companies really, really want to do podcasting. I spoke at a conference a little over a year ago in Scottsdale, big B2B conference, had a packed room of 100 people speaking at a panel, and two thirds of the people in the room raised their hand when they said, “Are you trying to start a podcast in your company?” And they were running into issues with time, they were running issues with knowledge, they were running issues with budget.So coming in and being able to stay the course—these are, of course, much longer relationship building sales cycles than, most entrepreneurs, generally care to go with. I have people ask me all the time, “So can you introduce me to your people at GE so I can be a corporate, you know, trainer there?” And I'm like, “That's not how this works.” It's not the warm introduction cycle that we're used to as entrepreneurs to build our network. So, there's a lot, there's a fair amount more to it than that. It's a fascinating world, but it's definitely growing.

Yeah, a few years ago, I had, I was approached by a big $800 million, like trust, and I just remember, for them to make a decision was like 10 different committee meetings, and they still hadn't decided and they said, “Oh, this is too cutting edge.” I'm like, “This is actually not”—this was just a couple years ago—and I’m like, “It's not cutting edge. And you guys have money by the time you implement it,” you know, but it's just amazing to see how they make decisions. And you’re right. It's not the entrepreneurial world.

No, they’re much more risk-averse.

So yeah, when you do get the contract, because there's a huge lead cycle in this kind of field. So, I'm excited for what you're doing.

Thank you.

Tina, your numbers—we started at like, 50, we ballooned to 70. We have 60-something people here is amazing. I just want to give a shout out to Ross Brand, Al Mega, Dr. Ellen, Rachel Hernandez, commenting, chatting.Anything that you see for artificial voice in corporate or is that going to take time? Like the [Alexa] skills, are you seeing anything there?

Any artificial voice—any truly artificial voice that it's not a human voice—we find a lot of resistance to and I also have a tremendous amount of resistance to it. Because to me, that is the polar opposite of what podcast gets used for. You know, when you and I worked together and I did a bunch of the interviews for The Messengers movie—if you haven't watched it, watch it—you know the thing that came up across all those interviews that we did was the word intimacy and podcast and creating intimacy. And so, an AI voice is the opposite of intimacy. And I don't think we're going to see mechanized or automated voices, takeover things anytime soon. Will we see things go into voice activation? Will we see more happening with Alexa? Yeah, I do think we'll see that. But there's a lot of privacy concerns, particularly in corporations. So that's the last place we're gonna see that; we're gonna see that in the consumer market way way sooner.

Oh, well, Tina, people can reach out to you through the app, connect with you. Thank you for taking the time out. Just tell us your website one last time.

Sure. You can go to TwinFlamesStudios.com and if you want to grab that package of stuff we put together for you. It's just TwinFlamesStudios.com/PodFest.

Awesome. Tina, thank you so much. You always knock it out of the park. You're a pro.

Thanks everyone for joining us.

I know you got a lot on your agenda. So, thank you for being part of this and supporting what we do. And also thank you for—I forgot but you did… Tina did the initial interviews, probably half of the movie. The Messengers came out with interviews Tina did while we were running the second ever Pod Fest. And if you haven't seen The Messengers: A Podcast Documentary—I'm gonna have Andrew upload it to the conference so people could see it. But thank you for mentioning that, Tina. Thank you for doing that for us.

It’s a great project. One of my favorite things.

It was awesome. Thank you.

Take care.

Goodbye now.

Interested in learning more about Internal Podcasting, External Podcasting, and Podcast Guesting?

How to Start a Podcast for Your New Brand

Written by Robin Thompson on December 10, 2020. Posted in Blog, Marketing, Podcasting.

So you started a new business. Now what? In today’s highly competitive world, it’s important to find a way for your brand to stand out. And starting a podcast might be just what you need to get your brand ahead of the curve.

Podcasting is an inexpensive yet highly effective marketing tool that can help promote your brand. 24 percent of Americans listen to podcasts every month, with an average person listening to five different podcasts a week. One reason why podcasting is such a powerful medium is because it allows you to connect on a more personal level with your audience. Brands that use podcasts allow them to speak conversationally to their potential customers in a comfortable, trusting environment. Below we will look at how business owners can start a podcast to promote their new brand.

Test the waters with guesting opportunities

One of the best ways to introduce your brand to a new market is through being an interview guest. It’s a good way to test out the waters and see how audiences respond to your business. An audience’s initial response can help you craft a concept and format that works. Although you can’t just become a guest for any podcast, it’s important to find a show whose subject is appropriate for your brand. If you are a food-related business, you may consider educational shows that look at food trends. If you are a company focused on health and personal care, you might want to look for a podcast focused on helping people improve their wellbeing.

Come up with a name, concept and format

The first step to starting a podcast for your business is finding a niche. This will not be difficult as it should be something related to your brand. However, you must keep in mind that the topic should be broad enough that you can explore different aspects of it, yet narrow enough that you are able to attract an audience within that specific interest. For example, the podcast show “.future” by Microsoft is exploring how the future may unfold based on how our individual lives are today. The show looks at aspects of technology, health and data that influence the future we are moving toward. This fits Microsoft’s branding quite well since the company has always been looking at how to shape the future of society through their products.

Once you have come up with a topic, you can zero in on other details of the podcast such as the name of the show. It should be something catchy, short yet also descriptive. You will also need to decide on the format, which includes the length, structure and how often you will be publishing. The structure, such as solo shows, co-hosted shows or interview shows, will also need to be carefully decided on depending on what best allows your brand’s content to shine.

Make sure the business side of your brand is in order

You also need to ensure that the business aspect of your brand is in order before you begin marketing through podcast shows. This is especially important for startups and small businesses who have limited resources and manpower. It goes without saying that you should fine tune a strategy in marketing your primary product or service. You must also check that you have the right business structure that allows you to protect yourself. Starting a podcast opens you up to many potential liability issues that could shut down both the podcast and your brand. And if you are, like many starting business owners, a sole proprietorship, be aware that this business structure doesn’t protect you should your brand fail or you run into legal issues. Instead consider upgrading to a new structure. An LLC is a US business structure where the owners aren’t personally liable for the company’s debt and liabilities. Business structures such as these give you the freedom to invest in opportunities to grow your brand without the fear of anyone going after your personal assets. For online businesses, you must also make sure that your online platforms are in order and that the user experience is polished. This is because the idea is for customers to head to your website after listening to your podcasts.

If you are thinking about starting a podcast for your brand we hope these tips have helped.

Online Lead Generation for Non-Salesy People

Written by Robin Thompson on December 3, 2020. Posted in Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Sales, Social Media, Video.

Tina Dietz talks to Lisa and Eric Pezik about online lead generation strategies for non-salesy folks that actually generate leads.Facebook Live, 2020

Tina Dietz talks to Lisa and Eric Pezik about strategies non-salesy folks can use to increase their visibility, draw in new audiences, and just overall generate more leads:

The important difference between lead generation and sales
How lead generation is often a long-term process
What looking for instant results can cost you in the long run
How “not-so-perfect” ads work better than professional ones
Why perseverance is key to lead generation success

Watch here:

Today, what we're talking about is this big old buzzword we've been hearing it in business constantly. It's gotten really intense this last year: Lead generation – online lead generation.

And particularly with a big surge in interest in LinkedIn. That's been where there’s been a lot of the lead generation conversation. But it ties in with conversations about Facebook ads, and Amazon ads, and Google AdWords and all of these places, so we're going to be talking about lead generation—what you really need to know, particularly if you're not a salesy person.

If you're somebody who has an established business, but the online world doesn't quite work for you, you're more of a relationship kind of person, you're more interested in “belly-to-belly” conversations, but you'd like to be developing more business online in a way that feels good—that feels like you, that doesn't feel like markety marketers marketing to marketers, as I often say.

I have here Lisa and Eric, my beautiful colleagues, hailing from the southern Ontario area—someplace I miss very much, that I used to spend an awful lot of time in. They have an absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous marketing agency that we've been sharing with our clients and colleagues, because I'm just so impressed with the work that you guys do. So thank you for joining me.

Aww! Thank you for having us!

Yeah! You guys have a number of different links—a number of different websites—so we'll put those in the comments as we go along. Please note that I tagged both Lisa and Eric on their respective pages in the description of this video as well. So that's all I want to say about that; let's get into chatting about some good stuff here.

Actually I would love to have the audience get to know you guys during this conversation, rather than ask you what your background is and what you do. They can look you up—you’ve got an about page, all that good stuff.

Let's get to the meat of the matter, which is, let's talk about the difference between lead generation and sales, because I run into this in conversations with people all the time. They don't know the difference between lead generation and sales. So Eric, would you start us off with that?

Yeah, absolutely. It's such a common thing that people talk about, and I really connect with this. I don't think that sales is sales—when it's really not a sale. What I mean by that is, you say, “Eric, I'm going to be in your neck of the woods, and I'm looking for a really great sushi place.” I'm going to refer you to the sushi place that I love, and I'm gonna say, “You gotta check it out! this restaurant, it's amazing. You'll love it, they have killer sashimi, they have amazing rolls, here's my favorite roll.”

Am I being salesy? Not at all. That’s sales, right? The lead gen side of that is the complete opposite. Now it's, “Okay, well, how do I get someone as the restaurant owner into my sushi place?” Completely different. Right now, you need to build trust, you're gonna have to be in front of people when they're looking for sushi, and they're googling for sushi. And that’s totally different. That's the lead gen side.

I feel like what Tina was talking about, how people want to be belly-to-belly, and they feel like there's the either/or: They feel like you're either belly-to-belly, or you're salesy. You're either a relationship marketer, or you do lead generation. They feel like lead generation has no belly-to-belly “relationship personality.”And that's what we do! We're not just going to grab random people off the street and throw them in the sushi restaurant and say, “Hey, I hope you like this.” We do all the legwork to get those people who love sushi, who love Toronto, who love the culture, who love the type of sushi—there—and then as the business owner, is to do what you do best, which is serve the pants off people and build those relationships. Serve the sushi pants off people!

Sushi pants!?

Maybe that's a thing!

It probably is. #SushiPants. Let's do it.

But people don't get to serve the sushi pants off people. They're so busy trying to find those people that want sushi pants, who come few and far between.

That's where this whole, “Lead generation didn't work for me, it's too much money, it's too much effort” idea comes from. No, lead generation works—with people that know what they're doing. What drives me crazy is the, “You’ll learn how to set up an ad and one hour and you'll be up and you'll be making money,” and everyone makes it sound so easy.

Yeah, so it's the salesy part. This is—I'll say it again, markety marketers marketing to marketers. It sounds like the fitness industry, you know—“Start a business in 30 days,” “Write a book in a weekend,” “Start a podcast overnight,” “Generate leads in your sleep”—all of these things can be done, but there is a quality conversation here.

It depends on what you are trying to create, both short-term and long-term. It also depends on what you already have in place. So I think it's important for us to take a look at what is necessary before you start lead generation. What do you already need to have in place?

For example, I work with a lot of authors, and I don't recommend lead generation, because all they have is a book. They don't have a product, they don't have a back-end yet. They're publishing a book for credibility, and there's a lot you can do with that in terms of book marketing, but there's a difference between book marketing and business marketing. So when you're working with people, what are some of the pitfalls that you run into? What should people have ready?

You don't know what you don't know. People come to us and they're like, “We want to run an ad to this, and we're like, “Okay, where's your landing page?” “Oh, I don't have one.” “Where's your social account?” “Oh, I don't have one.” “Where's your website?” “Oh, I don't have one.” “What are your products?” “I only have a book.” “Okay, then what if no one wants your book? Where are we going to take them?” Because lead generation is not a once and done, throw up some ads for 30 days, make you a million dollars. It is an ongoing process, that only gets better and better the longer you stick with it.

Everyone's comfort level is different. So for me, I'm okay to spend $500 one month and $500 the next month and have zero sales, knowing that in the third month, I'm going to make two, three, four thousand dollars in sales, or I'm going to make that thousand dollars. I'm okay to hang with it longer, knowing that I'm building relationships. Other people are like, “If I spend $500, I want $500 back that same day. I spent $5 today, I want a $5 sale that day.”

And most business doesn't work like that. Let's face it, it really doesn't work like that. You have to test, you have to find out what people want, what lands, what works, what doesn't work, and you can only do that by doing it.

Right! That's me—I don't want to waste your dollars testing. I want to take your ad spend dollars and go. So you've got to know clearly who you are, what you do, what you offer, and have somewhat already established a brand, a business, a tagline, a voice, a message, a product, that you’ve somewhat trialled and run through on.

I like to say on Facebook, for example, people have got to see you. You’ve got to go live, you’ve got to be serving, and giving, and showing up, and being visible. You're like a ghost and then all of a sudden, you're like, “Buy my s***!”

Exactly! People are like, “Who are you? Why are you here? What are you doing?” Particularly if it's a personal brand. Do you think we have a little bit more leeway on a product than a personal brand? I see new products pop up in my Facebook feed all the time.

That comes more down to if it's a product, you really want to talk about the pain points and the benefits. Why are you different? It's very similar. It's just when you're a personal brand, it's about you. People buy on you, versus buying the product—”Why should I buy this product over that product? Here's why.”

And the product is the experience! Nobody cares that the drill can drill into the hole in three seconds flat. People care that if I'm going to do a DIY project, I'm not going to kill my child when the playground system comes falling down on them, because this drill works so good. Or my honey is gonna love me, because I get this nice thing done in a day, as opposed to a year because I can't figure my stuff out.

The product is the experience. The service is the experience, but it's more the experience with a person. So people see you, they feel you, they know you, they understand you.

Yeah, so in both cases, it is a storytelling experience. You guys talk about this on your website, I talk about it all the time in my work. What's the story that you're telling? What's the journey you're taking people on? But yet, even if you're telling a personal story, the story really isn't about the storyteller, it's about how it relates to the people that you're talking to, and what's important to them. It's creating that connection. All storytelling, the purpose is to create connection and to draw people in into you.

So I think that the preparation of that, what you're talking about—do you already have something proven? I think a lot of newer entrepreneurs get scared by this, because they have had all these messages that, “Oh, if you build authority by writing a book, or if you suddenly become a coach,” (We'll talk about that another time!)—but really, “What are you good at?”

There's a little bit of chicken or egg thing that happens when you don't have a proven track record yet of doing that kind of thing. And I think that's where building a network and building referrals—a lot of the relationship work—the podcast guesting we help people with. Certainly, the book side of things can help with all of that, but it has to be paired with all kinds of other things. And I know that you guys have a full service agency, so some of these things—the website building, the storytelling, the branding, all of that—if someone's not ready for lead generation, you’ve got to back it up and help them with all of those things first. But what it really comes down to is, can you deliver on what you say?

Yeah! And being realistic. If you don't have all that figured out, but you know this is gonna work, you know you're gonna follow through, then be realistic that the first two or three months that we're driving leads to you, we're doing that “figuring out process” for you, which is worth every penny. It might take us three months, but it might have taken you three years.

Oh, definitely.

So even though maybe you're not making sales, even though your ROI is sales, it's figuring out what's landing with your audience—and you're getting more clarity in the process. So it shouldn't keep you from doing it, because either way, it's a win-win. It's just you’ve got to be realistic with, “What is that win?” Everybody goes to money in their pocket. That's the only thing that they say makes it work or doesn't work. But you’ve got to change your mentality when it comes to that new generation.

And being realistic with what is the lifetime value of the client. We get that a lot. They don't realise that you might work with us for three months and say, “Oh my God, I haven't had a sale,” but then three months later, you might have fifty or a hundred sales that happen because that person followed you, and then when they decided to actually buy whatever you're offering, you were the one that was there from the beginning six months ago, when they had that thought, “I'm gonna play in my backyard, I'm gonna do a landscaping job.” Well, you don't just flick a switch and go, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna invest $30,000 in my backyard. It’s a six month, twelve month process.

Yeah! We had a lot of that with this current state of as we're filming this, we're still in the middle of the pandemic, and everyone's like, “Shut down my ads, I'm done. I can't run ads.” We're like, “Wait, what? Why?” “Well nobody's doing nothing. nobody's buying nothing. Shut ‘er all down.”

So not true.

Yeah. What's gonna happen if you all of a sudden disappear, and then you all of a sudden want to reappear again?

Then you’re messing with people’s heads.

A lot of people are spending time on their social media in front of their computer, researching. Planning. You don't want to run ads? Says who? So again, you gotta think about what's the end game? What's the end goal? That lifetime value. They might not be ready today to purchase your service or buy your product, but six months from now, they may be!

It's a whole thing about sticky branding, right? People do remember things. They're more likely to look things up that they've seen in the past, or they've heard in the past, or that have been endorsed by other people that they do trust.

If you've already got an ad campaign going, and it has been producing results, it's the people that I've seen in the last six months, as we've been dealing with this pandemic, who have really doubled down and pivoted appropriately, depending on their industry, and really made it even more about relationships, even more about serving people, even more about being helpful, that have done really, really well.

I know you guys have seen an expansion in your company, we've seen an expansion in our business. We're in a position, being fully online businesses, we're used to doing business online, that are in a position to help companies do things that aren't in-person. That is something that has been a little nerve wracking for some of the companies that we're working with, because they are highly professional and financial companies, private equity, very sensitive areas.

It may take a little while for them to make the leap, but once you get into a groove, once people start to trust who you are and what you're saying, there's a flow that happens with these lead generations. People can tell when you're being authentic, and when you're not. Even when it might be some type of automation or nurture campaign that may go out automatically. The storytelling that you guys do is so conversational, and so transparent, and I think that's what makes the biggest difference in making what would normally look like marketing or advertising, feel good. That's what we all want. We need to feel good when we see this.

Yes! And that is knowing your client. Like when you hear the word “agency,” we run a social media agency, we run a marketing agency, we run a done-for-you agency—at the beginning, I remember when you were saying that, “I don't want to be called an agency! I don't even want to be associated with that word.”

Because that's like a production factory. Get you in, get you out, charge you astronomical amounts, good luck trying to get ahold of somebody. There's no belly-to-belly personalization. That's the complete opposite of us! We're so individualized, we’re so deep-dive, and I think that's where the best ads come from. When you know your client, you deep dive, you take the time to learn their stories, their brand emotions.

The not-so-perfect-ads tend to do a lot better than the perfectly makeup scripted, in front of my computer… The messy hair, walking down the street ads—people tune into because they're real. And they're relatable. You don't have to be anyone you're not, you don't have to speak like you're not. You just have to be you. And the right people connect to that.

Yeah, it comes across. It's like connecting with people that you talk to for the first time. It's either you're gonna instantly feel that compassion, if they're genuine people, or you're just gonna be like, “No, forget it. I don't relate.” And that's totally fine.

And that's why lead generation isn't a start and stop kind of initiative. You don't ever want to have that, “Oh, I'm gonna do that, I'm not gonna do that for two months, I'm gonna do another month, I'm not gonna do another one.” You’re not getting anywhere when you start and stop.

So I think when you're in that position, that lead generation is right for you, have the budget for it. How many times do we say, “Okay let's go,” and they're like, “I have no budget.”

Well, what's the budget that somebody might consider starting with? What would be, you know, a good range to start with? What should they set aside for, say, six months or a year? Just the ad spend is what I'm talking about.

We would start at like $500, and then we would scale it based on success,

Based on success, right. And so yeah, so from a $5,000 [total] marketing budget, that makes sense to me, because there's a lot of done-for-you: The iterations, the testing, the research, the keywords, the audiences. There's a lot of friggin details in the back end of that. I took a couple of classes on Facebook ads, because who hasn't? And just the back end, the interface, was enough to make me want to go blind. That is not my world.

Yeah, like we tell people—we have a team of Facebook ads experts, and that is their job, to stay current, to stay around. If you are going to run ads on your own, $500 is a great ad spend to start with. You then have to be the one every single day going in there looking, testing, tweaking, staying on top of it, because you will burn through that if you don't know what you're doing. You'll burn through that $500 faster than you clicked the button to put the ad on.

Some of the most successful people I've seen advertise on Facebook, particularly who were on the service side of things—you guys have a really fantastic specialty working with online businesses, but also working with local companies: Everything from local colleges, to gyms, to medical practices and things like that.

I think that's really impressive, because that's a big gap in the market—those types of companies. Clearly you're able to do both, but I remember in a Q&A session with this person, because they very much had an “anyone can do it” conversation. And it was like, how much are you spending on ads on a daily basis?

They were spending $700 a day on ads, and they had a team doing it. It's the same thing with these major launches, when you see all these people’s success, really important, prominent people. Jeff Walker—classic, right? The big launch guy, fantastic work, amazing work. It will take you six months to a year and $60,000 to run a full Jeff Walker launch campaign. Period.

The guy that I was learning from said, if you don't have $5,000 a day to spend on ads, you're not even playing in Facebook Ad Land. And I was like, “Did he say five dollars a day? Did he—he said $5k a day!?” I'm like, this isn't my seat, because we started with $250 a month when we started running ads to my courses and programs.

What I like is why you don't just want to guess and do it yourself, is our experts watch it. They're very quick to say, “The $500 is your budget. We've already spent like 300 bucks, it's not working. We need to try something different, we need to go somewhere else.” Like I said, you can burn through money. And that's why people say Facebook ads don't work. No—it's you didn't know what you're doing, and you burn through your money, and now you got a bad feeling about that.

Yeah, even with just building our pages on Facebook. We have a page we built organically, we've got about 200,000 followers, and it's a massive pain in the butt because Facebook is constantly changing things, so there's a lot to it.

You know, you've mentioned a couple times, the value of done-for-you services, and my company with audiobooks and podcasting—we provide done-for-you as well. One of the reasons I decided to go in that direction was a survey I ran on audiobooks when I first started experimenting with audiobook services, because like most people coming out of the consulting world and the coaching world, my first thought was, “Oh, I'll do a course, and people can do it themselves.”

I ran a survey with a bunch of my colleagues, about 50-60 people, ran them through it. There was a question that I put in there that said, “Which are you more likely to do? A. Take a course and do it yourself, B. Hire someone to do it for you, or C. Take a course, realize how much it is, then hire somebody to do it for you.” Almost everybody answered C, and put a note in about that question of, “Thank you for asking this because it actually brought to my attention that this is what I actually do.”

That's when I decided I’ve got to do done-for-you services instead. Best decision I ever made as a business owner, both because it's been great to develop the company and find out what's needed, but also because it got down to an actual need that people had.

That’s it! A necessity. The people that understand done-for-you realize the cost of an action, the cost of trying to muck through and figure it out on your own—you're not going to do it. It’s a necessity to move that mission bigger. That makes people go, “I gotta stay in my lane. I have no business tinkering around in the back end or Facebook ads thing. I have no business trying to do my own audio book thing and like, I gotta stay in my lane.” The people that make it a done-for-you service—they're good at what they do! They're not just random newbie developers; they are the best of the best of the best. It's like, “We get you where you want to go—you don't have the time. You can waste so much money so much time so much energy.”

I've done it myself, trying to do a lot of stuff myself. Let's face it, we're really smart people—we can figure a lot out. But doesn't mean you should.

And that's hard. When you're Type A, you're driven, you're good, and you're like, “I can do this—tell me I can't, I’ll show you I can,” and that's the curse of being really good. You can figure it out. You're smart, you're resourceful. You know how to ask for help. It's like that badge of, I'm gonna sit here for 27 hours. figure this out, and then for what? And it's like yeah is that battle you should be entering into—

—Or should you be spending that 27 hours having conversations with people that you could be helping, having them sign on to work with you, or bring them into your business or your company, and then having your clientele fund the done-for-you services, your marketing team, your PR your audio branding, whatever it is that you're doing, so that you don't have to.

I can't tell you how many people are like, “I have $10,000. I need your help. But oh, well, I can't work with you though, because I decided to put this into my book. Or I decided to put this into, I'm going to speak on stage—I paid to play and I'm going to speak on a stage, or I'm going on this TV interview.” The one shot wonder. There is no such thing as overnight success.

Media is so important. Having a book is important. All of these things are important. But they have to be in order.

Correct!

They need to be in order. Unfortunately, I see it a lot, too. That being said, this morning, wrote a couple of emails, referring some of my close colleagues to you guys, because I'm like, “You know what, they could really work with you guys, because they're at a point in their company—they need to not be doing it themselves, but it doesn't make sense to hire like a single marketing person.”

A single person can't do everything on their own. Having the backing of a team is really important, and finding a good marketing agency is—that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on this live today—is that I only have a few companies that I will refer people to for marketing services. That's based on my 20 years in business and having been burned and being really very suspicious—very suspicious Type A over here—on things.

I even have a referral partner of mine—today, they sent me some information about information they wanted me to put out there. And I sent it back to them some feedback: I'm like, your terms and conditions aren't clear, and your disclaimer, it actually isn't legally responsible for you to say some of those things. So I can't promote this, because my people are going to have questions that I can't answer, and you're not giving me an opportunity to send them to anyone to answer questions. You just want them to click “Buy Now.” And I'm never gonna send somebody to a “Buy Now” button that's five to fifty thousand dollars, without the opportunity for somebody to have a conversation. I wouldn't do business like that.

Yes. People don't want to take the time. You have to take the time. You have to treat it like it's your business—like that business decision is a decision that you would make in your business. And if you don't like being rushed, why would you rush somebody else?

Exactly.

Give people all the information. It might not seem like a life or death, make it or break it conversation to you, but it may be for that person staring back at the screen. We never push our people into making decisions. We educate and we take as much time as we need till they feel comfortable one way or another.

I've seen you do it! For sure.

Well, I wanted to see if I could kind of wrap up some last words of wisdom here and circle back around to this whole idea of a checklist or a couple of pieces that people need to actually make online lead generation effective. What are a few things that we really want people to know—that they ought to have, or ought to work on, and obviously they can reach out to you guys too, or reach out to me for more.

A few things. Definitely have multiple offers. Think about how you can take one particular thing and make it three different things, but yet, it's still the same thing. That's critical, because we get that a lot, where you say this thing's 99 bucks, and you think that everyone's gonna buy it because you think it's the greatest thing. At the same time, maybe that 99 bucks, instead of saying it’s $99, you turn around and say, “You know what, I'll give you free shipping.” So there's two offers right there. So think of it that way. Crafted uniquely, so when you put it out there to the public, you’ve got places to go and different things to try.

Because a lot of people will say, “It didn't work.” “What did you try?” “I put it on for 99 bucks, nobody bought it. It's the price, but this thing's worth a million bucks.” So I'd say that's number one.

Number two is, make sure you have proper branding. Make sure you have something that someone's gonna trust. We always find that people think that people aren't paying attention because they didn't click like or because they didn’t comment. Biggest BS! People are always watching. People are always paying attention. You probably have the same friends like we do where all of a sudden, we won't see friends for six months. Next thing you know, they're like, “Hey, yeah, I saw that you had oysters yesterday! Where'd you get those oysters from?” You're like, “What?!”

So just remember a big takeaway from Eric. They're always watching. It's true, though. It's absolutely true, and I think that goes back to your analogy from the beginning of our conversation about the sushi restaurant as well. You not think about having sushi for three, four or five months at a time, but when you have a craving for it, you know exactly where to go because of that recommendation that you got from a friend, or because of the ad that you saw, or the coupon you got in the in the paper or the recommendations you saw on TripAdvisor. It sticks with you, and that goes by just what you said—that sticky branding. It's about that branding that stays with you over time. Anything else?

My last thing, no matter what you think is or isn't working, stay at it. Stay at it, and get out of your own way, because you're not the one that gets to decide that. It's your buyers, it's your audience—they're the ones who will decide for you. So just stay in your pay lane and keep doing what you're doing, whatever that is. It'll end up paying off dividends in the long run. We see people give up really quickly—they'll try for two weeks, three weeks, and then we’re like, “No, no, you gotta give it like, three years before you can really say something did or didn't work.”

I give it six months.

I agree.

I know if I'm gonna say yes to running an ad, any campaign, any process, I know I'm in this for six months. It's too early to bail on it—to say it worked or didn't work. You don't have enough data.

And I was gonna say make sure everything matches. If you run it, and it doesn't look and feel—it looks and feels and sounds one way, and then they hit your landing page or your website, and it looks and feels and sounds a different way—that's going to cause an instant, people are gonna be like, “Whoa!”

Oh, no, that will cause an instant pivot to everything. I'm actually in the midst of a fitness program right now, and I know the fitness industry. I have a hard time joining programs with it because of the marketing that gets done with that. This company is no exception—I won't name them. Their products are good, and it's like, “Oh, I'm going to show you in 30 seconds how to do something,” and it takes you to a 15 minute sales webinar. Every day, an email that's like that, usually selling a supplement, selling a meal plan, it's like, “Oh, we're going to give you everything you need, we're going to give you the recipes, we're going to give you this, we're going to give you that.”

No. They're going to give you one list of recipes, and then they're gonna sell you a personalized meal plan every damn day. So this is why this personal connection and taking the time with people, and managing expectations is so important, particularly in this realm. I know we agree that transparency is so important.There's lots of places that you can go out there, my dear friends out in Facebook Land, where people are going to tell you where you want to hear. Your friends will tell you what you want to hear. Don't ask your friends for feedback on things. Ask people that you respect, that are successful, for feedback.

Go out and ask three marketing agencies to give you feedback and see what the commonality is between the three. You'll find the intersection of where you're falling down on the job. But when you're talking about doing business with a company, make sure they're willing to take the time with you. (I mean, be respectful of their time of course, we don't have all damn day!) But nonetheless, someone that's willing to work with you and is willing to shoot straight with you and say, “You're not ready for this yet. This is actually where you need to be.” It's not because they necessarily want to sell you something more, it's because they want your initiative to be successful.

Yeah, hundred percent. Lastly, I would say have a process in place for follow-up. Because even though everyone thinks lead generation equals automated sales—

—That's a story, tell the story!

Okay, so we have this lovely client who we love dearly, and she worked at a gym. She's a nutritionist, and people were just giving to her, as part of the package, amazing testimonials, a ton of success stories. A perfected process: Check, check, check. Now she's running ads to a webinar to an application to work one-to-one with her so she wants to do it on our own. Because helping all these people, getting paid X amount at the gym—that's how you know you're an entrepreneur when you're like, “Wait a second—”

“I’m pretty sure I can do this better on my own! Shouldn’t I get paid more for this?”

Right! But the legwork was done for those people—the trust was built, the qualified leads were already there, whether they liked it or not. There were people that were saying to her, “I don't even know why I'm in this office with you. I'm here because I have to be. I don't really want to do this.” They end up being her best testimonials.

But now you know, we have over 100 people that have watched that webinar and we're like, “You got a goal, but the sales—‘Oh well?’ You got to go back to those hundred people! You got to go back and say, Hey, the belly-to-belly! The personalization! What was the biggest thing that made you click into that webinar? Was there anything in there that resonated with you, anything that didn't resonate with you? What are you looking for? What are your worries and your fears about hiring someone like me? Like you? What do you need to know for us to be able to help you?”

Instead of the “Watch the webinar, do the application, click it, buy it.” You can't duplicate the same process—well you can, but there's more legwork and belly-to-belly work that has to be done. You have to follow up. So even though everyone leading to you was automated, when it's a service-based high ticket, sometimes there's a conversation that's required. When you've got 100 people that want to work with you, And you're the lag in your own way, because you don't want to have a conversation, come on.

That's a problem. You’re really shooting yourself in the foot.

Yes. You have to do this much. Don't let this be the month that makes it not work.

Yeah, you might be missing the office. Right? Like you think about the analogy behind that. The reason why her biggest success was at the gym was because she got people into her office. And that office they got a relationship, into intimacy. We all get nutrition, we all get health. We all get that we need to work out, eat better, and drink water. But you know, you need that next level—you need someone to tell you how to do it.

You need to trust someone enough to say “Yes, I'll do it with you.”

That's very true. There's a lot of choices out there. There's a tremendous amount of information.

How much money have we spent on health products? MLM. Training. And she makes the claim which is valid, and I believe her, that “I want to be the last nutritionist you ever work with.”

I love that.

“I teach you about how to do it for life. I teach you how to truly live in tune with your body.” I'm like, “And then there's 100 people that need you! Get your butt on the phone!”

Yeah, so maybe my next one of these Facebook Lives I’ll do something on closing! Because that's one of my favourites. Lead gen and sales—remember this—not the same thing. Also your website, your offers, your products—not the same thing as your marketing in your lead generation.

So all of these things are pieces of a puzzle—they're like Legos. You're building a house as colourful and as interesting and as weird as you want it to be, but that doesn't mean you don't need the architecture. So if you're looking for more architecture, for your business, and to help with the marketing, to help with the lead generation, and you really want someone who's going to tell you—”Do this, don't do that”—talk to Lisa and Eric. They'll tell you what you need to know. And I do trust wholeheartedly that you'll be fully taken care of.

I appreciate you guys being here today and joining me for this collaboration conversation here on Facebook Live. And we'll be also sharing this out with our other networks as well. So I'll see you all over “the Internets.”

Thank you so much for having us!

Oh, my pleasure. We'll talk to you soon, guys. Thanks!

Lisa Pezik

Eric Pezik

Lisa, her husband Eric Pezik, and their team specialize in done for you services with branding, content creation, funnels, and websites, with their agency Infinite Design House. They also offer SEO, blogs, social media, and lead generation with their Sales Booster Program. They do all the things you don't know how to do or don't want to do in the online space!

5 Steps to Find Your Book Inside Your Blog

Written by Robin Thompson on November 17, 2020. Posted in Audiobook Marketing, Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Publishing, Sales, Voice.

Here are five steps you, as a content generator, can take to find your book inside your blog (and inside your other content, too.)

“We all have a book inside us,” as Dana Micheli, fellow ghostwriter points out. I agree with her, but I also believe that content generators, who are practically manifesting material in their sleep, already have a book outside of them. They just don’t know it…yet.

I consider a content generator a business owner or entrepreneur with an abundant blog, LinkedIn articles for days, keynote addresses and speeches filling up digital file folders, transcripts of every interview they’ve ever done (podcast or otherwise), and copies of any free eBook, presentation, or article they’ve ever written. Whether they’ve generated all this content themselves, or benefited from the support and talent from content writers, copywriters, and/or ghostwriters, the fact is this: They are sitting on a content gold mine, each piece a precious gem, and part of a book just waiting to be produced.

I’m fortunate to work with clients who believe in the power of content and who leverage me to help grow and nurture their mines. Most of them want to produce their first book (or next) but struggle with repurposing their content or searching for the parts and pieces to produce a book—a book that is focused, well-written, showcases their expertise, offers value to their audience, and boosts their business credibility and brand.

Here are five steps a content generator can take to find a book inside their blog (and any of their other content, too).

STEP 1: Identify Topical or Thematic Threads and Trends

List all the places where content exists and visit these locations. Review headings (and subheadings) and scan your content. Note keywords and other recurring ideas that you notice.

Rank your discovered themes/topics and choose the one that speaks to you the most, or aligns with your brand and vision for your business. By going through this process, you’ve found the focus of your book. (You’ll also likely find the most precious gems: the stuff you once wrote that really shined above the rest. Hopefully, those pieces make it into your final work.)

STEP 2: Define Your Reader and Relevance

Now that you’ve identified your topic, pull together copies of each piece of related content. Scan the content and ask yourself: who is my ideal audience? Why is this topic relevant to them? What will they get in reading this information? How is it different and new from what already exists? To take this one step further, envision all this content in its final version (a beautiful book with your name on it) and reflect on what your intended goals / hopes / outcomes are for this book.

STEP 3: Outline Your Table of Contents

Determine where you believe you want your reader to begin and to end. Mark the beginning as A on a piece of paper, and write B on the other side. You’ll fill in the outline of A to B as you read your content again, and this will become your table of contents. Now, this time, you’re not going to just look at content online. Print everything relevant to your topic. Read each piece then set it aside (temporarily). Yes, this may take you some time. You’re mining for the gold here. What are the relevant pieces that really stand out? How do you see these pieces creating an arc of the work? Organize your content based on how to get the reader from point A to B. List the titles of each individual piece in your outline according to how you think they should be ordered.

STEP 4: Investigate Gaps and Goodness

Pinpoint what’s missing and what’s already kicking butt. Read your content from start to finish in the order you outlined. Record what is working (‘goodness’) about what isn’t (‘gaps’). Make a plan for addressing the gaps. This may mean reading it out loud to yourself, taking some time away from the draft, running it through spell check, asking a friend to proofread, etc.

STEP 5: Polish Before Your Publish

Polish your work so it’s crystal clear and shines like a diamond. It’s time to fine-tune things before you publish—no matter what publication route you go. When you’ve finished addressing the gaps, read the full manuscript for clarity, cohesion, and flow. Mark the text where adjustments need to be made. Proofread with an eye for spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., and review for formatting and styling consistency. Solicit the feedback of others you trust to give you a professional and critical eye, and assess if you achieved your goals.

You have now finished mining a book out of your voluminous mountain of content.

If you need some extra support with these five steps, you can snatch up my free gift, Finding Your Book Inside Your Blog: A Content Master’s Scavenger Hunt & Field Guide to Find the Pieces to Produce Your Book.

Alyssa Berthiaume is a native Vermonter, professional (and creative) writer, practicing feminist, recovering middle child, wannabe superhero, and a mom who’s pretty sure she’s “winging it” most of the time. She’s the leading Lady (Boss) and ghostwriter at The Write Place, Right Time – her virtual boutique of writing services for badass coaches, trainers, and speakers, and other badass entrepreneurs who don't “do words” but know they need them. To know more about how she can “do words” for you, visit her website.

Alyssa Berthiaume – Copywriting, Ghostwriting, Lady Boss and Owner of The Write Place, Right Time

How to Enchant Your Skeptical Audience and Bring Them Back for MORE

Written by Robin Thompson on November 11, 2020. Posted in Audiobook Marketing, Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Podcasting, Sales, Vocal Leadership.

Tina Dietz talks to Andrea Enright about the importance of not just engaging, but enchanting, your audience.(Facebook Live, August 11, 2020)

Tina Dietz talks to Andrea Enright about the importance of not just engaging, but enchanting, your audience. They discuss:

How “engagement” has become a social media buzzword
How it’s vital to make people understand what you provide, not just what you do
The importance of being authentic
Tips for improving your profile and presence on LinkedIn
The value of stories for creating enchantment—but avoiding the “Once upon a time” trope!

Listen below:

Hey everybody!

Since I'm posting this publicly, I'll introduce myself really quickly. And then of course, my beautiful friend and colleague here.

So those of you don't know me, I'm Tina Dietz, I'm the owner and CEO of Twin Flames Studios. I have been building businesses for many decades internationally, but what me and my company do best is unleash the voices of trusted brands and companies, executives, and leaders worldwide. We do that primarily through audiobooks, podcasting, and vocal leadership.

I've decided to go ahead and talk with some of my colleagues live—we have all these conversations that happen in the background, I know all these amazing human beings who are out doing incredible work in the world and I thought, “Well, you know what, why not share some of this awesome with the world?”

This is Andrea Enright from The Boot Factor—and I'll tell you more about her in just a second—but Andrea and I had gotten to talking about the proliferation, the outrageous number of people claiming to be LinkedIn experts that is happening lately. And all the mistakes that people make in their branding and their messaging, and how tired we are of certain conversations in the industries that we work in with consulting and coaching and service industry professionals.

We work a lot with the financial industries, and with high end consultants, with healthcare organizations—pharmaceutical—and training organizations. So you know, we have all these inside conversations; now we're bringing it back out to you and today what we're talking about primarily is the conversation around engagement: “Well you have to create an engagement on social media!”

Are you tired of that? I'm tired of this.

Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword!

It's such a buzzword right?

Let me tell you more about Andrea before we get into this. So Andrea, has been an entrepreneur since 2002. And much like myself, she has a checkered past…

Well, they's fun questions to come. That’s what we call a hook!

Love it!

But she's been working, beautifully, with coaches, with consultants, a lot of folks coming out of the corporate world becoming consultants, and helping them to clarify their message—”Please god, clarify your message”—and get your message out there, in these badass elevator pitches, making sure that your LinkedIn profile is, I'm gonna use a really horrible term, “on fleek.”

But making sure that it is beautiful and pristine and represents exactly who you are. We'll talk a little bit more about how that gets done. Because that is an art and a science. And she's just a really cool person to hang out with. I love her because she's no BS. That's what we're mostly talking about here.

So, thank you for joining me here today. We were having some technical issues with Facebook Live, so thanks for hanging with me through that.

Thanks, Tina!

Yeah. Sorry, do you want me to—should I talk about—

No! Talk. Absolutely! Go ahead. I'd love to have you go and dive in. I'm curious, what did I miss?

I mean… I really work with coaches and executives, and really helping people get brave with their brand, basically. When you get brave, then you get to something called, what I'm starting to call, “Leads In,” which is getting Lead Gen without freaking out, you know?

Yes!

Without the panic! So, if you can get to your authentic self, and you can get brave, and you can show up and get vulnerable and show just a little bit of lack of perfection because nobody wants to see that—we're totally bored with it. We're not interested in a long list of achievements.

And I think… Here, how about this? This is really what it sums up—most LinkedIn profiles start out with, like, “I'm not sure how to tell you this, but I'm kind of a big deal.” Right?

Yeah, actually, mine does. I know mine’s up for an evaluation. That's one of the reasons you and I have been talking And I haven't updated it yet. Because I'm intending to have your badassery all over it! So, that was the way it got done.

And it's the same way with webinars and things like that, you know? Speaking from my own experience: I've had to talk to a number of clients in the vocal leadership side of things to please, please, please tell a human story. Don't spend twenty minutes talking about your long list of how perfect your life is before you actually teach anything or share anything or give people any value about why they're there.

Right! To give people credit—to not totally throw everyone under the bus—LinkedIn was set up originally as like this resume place, right? Like this job seeking place. So people are like, “Oh my gosh, I better put everything that's amazing about me in a long boring list, like a play-by-play timeline of your life.” And guess what? Nobody cares!

Yep.

Just please summarize for me, because I'm not getting past the third line.

Yeah, and that's it. Our attention spans are like that of a gnat, pretty much, online these days. And, well, here's what here's one of my other favorites: I'm sorry, guys. We're not trying to totally throw you on the bus here. If you have any of these things, it's okay. We're all human. It's a good time. But you know, how about how about this? This pose!

It's true! I think people get really self conscious about “How am I supposed to look?” It can be okay. If you're looking authentic, if your teeth are showing, if you're smiling, if your face is taking 60% of the frame.

Yes—please.

Then you're good. I don't care what you're doing. But yeah, there is a pose—a perfection about it. And people are just not interested in that. And now LinkedIn is going from like resume to resource, like, “How can you be of value?”

Yes! From resume to resource! Let's talk about that. We've been doing some different things on LinkedIn this year and really doubling down on using LinkedIn.

We've been using LinkedIn a lot in the background and now it's kind of having a resurgence. I think for a long time, LinkedIn was a bit of the redheaded stepchild of the social media world, and now it's having a resurgence because so many more companies—we're business to business companies, and us marketing high-end services on Facebook does not work. Same with Twitter. Forget it.

Yes!

It's noise. It's just noise. So we've been having a lot of a tremendous engagement—hopefully enchantment, we shall see—with folks. And getting tremendous reach on our post, sometimes up to 65, 70,000 people seeing our posts! But it takes a lot of time to craft these messages, and get things out there. Fortunately, I have a fabulous team and they're really helping to repurpose content, get things out there every day on a regular basis.

But you know, where do you think people should start? Do you start with the content? Do you start with your profile? Chicken/egg.

I want to talk about the posting because I think there's a big shift that needs to happen with the posting. But the profile is really where you start. That's where you should start with anything. If you are a high-end coach, executive turn consultant, speaker, author—people are googling you, they're finding you, please start with your profile, and turn that into a resource instead of a resume.

So, how can you give a soft sell and create Thought Leadership, and give them something that they can use in their meeting today at 3 o'clock—and this is amazing! This makes them think, “Oh, wow! She knows what she's talking about,” and “Oh, wow! I'm going to call her anyway.” They're not going to go implement your shit with this “three tips” that you give them. If they're serious, they're gonna call you. So this is really just—it's giving. It's giving stuff away and being okay with that. It's serving instead of selling.

Serving instead of selling. That really is the key, and I think that it's also important if that feels like a foreign concept for people. Because every so often, most of the people that we work with are heavily service-oriented, heavily relationship-oriented. They're used to doing a lot of business what we would call “belly-to-belly.” But I think a lot of folks have a difficulty translating that to online, particularly our podcasting clients.

We work with a lot of folks who are very high touch, very white glove, wealth managers and consultants, who really spend a lot of time cultivating relationships with their clients. So when you go into a social media situation, it feels sometimes to them—not only like the Wild West, but like a foreign entity, like a different language they have to speak.

We talk about being vulnerable. We talk about being authentic. But for somebody who's having these long conversations with people, how does that translate?

This has been a perfect segway because of Zoom, because of having to switch to Zoom. So, people are like “I meet my clients face to face, I can't give them this custom thing. How do I do this?” And really, I think it used to be building a LinkedIn profile to get people to know, like, and trust you—

Yes, classic.

—and that was, like Dale Carnegie. It's like, Okay, “How can I get get those people in,” right? But now it has to be these three things, I believe, these three pillars. Mine are: Translate, Educate, and Enchant.

So, we Translate that message; and the biggest way we do that is, because we're not face to face with them and we can't see, we can't go off their cues—we are not in real time—we have to Translate that message, and we have to think, “How can I think of it in terms of how they're thinking about it.” Not “how I'm thinking about selling it,” because nobody wants to be sold to. “How can I think about it in terms of them receiving it?”

What is their pain? What's keeping them up at night? What is the wound that they have that they can that they cannot get past? What is hurting? And what will then make them think of that message in a translated way. So, Translate is really that first one.

Yeah, Translate very, very important there.

And here's the other thing. You mentioned something we talk about a lot in marketing, on the marketing side of things, which is pain points. I, personally, am pretty uncomfortable with the terminology of that, and a lot of my clients are as well. So, I want to translate that piece as well. Because classically, we do talk about pain points and identifying their pain or their wounds, and things like that. I want to counteroffer something here and say, you know, it might not be something that keeps people up at night, but what's the itch they can't seem to scratch? Or what do they have questions about? What are they curious about?

It really is all about putting yourself in the other person's shoes. My clients are doing well. They're doing well for themselves. They're really out there helping other people. But if I were to talk with them and say, “You have to have a podcast or everything's going to hell,” that's never going to happen.

Okay, that is a great point, and I think pain points can matter. Two things come to mind. One is that I recently redefined for me the definition of… redefined “brave,” because “brave” used to be like, being scared and doing it anyway. Guess what? That's really not good advice for a teenager who's just about to enter—

Yeah, it's a little bit psychopathic on occasion.

Right! Like “Oh, you're afraid, but keep going!” So instead, I think it's this inner knowing or this inner voice, and I think a lot of my clients’ pain—it hurts not that bad, but they know that something's off. They know they haven't tended to something, they know there's a voice that's—that they're hearing these whispers. So, I think when you have that inner knowing, that also moves you into that brave position, and into that position where you're like, “Look, I've got a change, I've got to change something. I have to go that extra step.”

That makes total sense. I had a really important turning point in my life a couple of years ago, where I realized that I had this background mantra of “I'm fine; it'll be fine. I'm fine; it'll be fine.” That's a really good thing if you're just looking to evaluate something and truly let it go, but I realized that I had spent a lot of my life talking myself into things being fine when they weren't fine.

Right. Right.

And so, I think it's important, if you are listening to this right now, if you're watching this right now, and you hear yourself trying to talk yourself into something that “It'll be fine. It'll work out.” That is a red flag.

It's a great point, and I think that leads me to this “fear abundance.” When I'm talking to people, when I'm helping them establish their brand, and they're wanting to sell—I'm like “I'm not going to outlaw it, but let's try not to wrangle our clients, or potential clients, into a position of fear.” Like, “Oh, my God, if we don't do this, things are going to be over.”

Yes.

You don't want to instill that kind of fear. I really want to get them out of the trance of scarcity and toward a mindset of abundance, right? There is more; there can be more. You can find more. And so, I think that's important as well.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

So what are some of the other things that you tend to see—and we'll stick with LinkedIn for right now because it's a good focal point for us to look at—especially if we're considering that how you do one thing is how you do everything. It is a place where we're focusing on showcasing ourselves as well as our businesses: Who are you, as an individual, as a leader, as a CEO, as a consultant.

But truly, we're not looking at business pages, or company pages, the same way we tend to look at individual profiles. So what are you seeing that people are missing the mark on this?

A couple things. One is they're thinking of themselves very firmly attached to the job that they currently have. When you do that, and then that job ends, and then your life will shift. So what we have to do on LinkedIn—and with a personal brand—is really talk about yourself, and brand yourself, in a way that is connected but independent of your job, right? So then when you're moving on, when you're moving up, when you're moving over, those skills are much more easily translated.

I see people describing what they do in their job instead of what they do around their job, and for the company. So it's task oriented instead of outcome oriented. I think I’m definitely seeing that as a mistake.

That's a really important focal point, and I want to build onto what you're saying. On the podcasting side of things, we often work with folks who are emerging—in their thought leadership, in their vocal leadership, in their messaging—and we see the same thing: I have a client right now, actually, who is still so firmly ensconced in the corporate world, does a great job there, has been there for 15 years, but he has a whole other company that he's been developing on the side.

So, the dance he has to dance is in speaking broadly about who he is, what he stands for, what his values are, and—rather than a lot of how to, or any kind of pitching or things like that—and that's a that's a real mindset shift.

It really is. I've seen people do that though—you really can go from, “Well, what am I really bringing to the table on the board position I have, in my company, in my side business? Why am I valued?” Then going from there, we see that people are putting their positions. They're just treating it as a resume. Instead of a headline at the top, I see a position. It really, in my opinion, should be a headline. It should be who you help, what you actually give. Not advice; you give peace of mind. Not a massage; you give out relaxation.

Translate what you do into what people are really getting, and try to lead with that. Positions mean less than they ever have, because they hand out positions because they can't pay you more sometimes. Isn't that true? I mean, your executive title does matter, but that doesn't really tell me how you're any different from the other VP. So you can have your position, but then I want to know more. I want to really know the hard skill and the soft skill of what you're bringing to the table.

And I want to give a shout out. A lot of what I've learned is from my LinkedIn coach Ellen McLemore. She's amazing. She really has helped shift my mindset on LinkedIn, and that's been that's been huge. It is really a mindset shift.

You know, one of the things that just occurred to me is the concept of elevator pitches. Which is something you work a lot with as well?

Yeah!

How does that interact with something like LinkedIn, or does it at all?

I think it really does. You have to remember that it's all about context, so when I'm sitting next to someone on a plane (in my non-COVID life), I need to have an elevator pitch that is a hook, and it's just enough for someone to turn their head and say, “Tell me more.” Or if I’m on a networking event, or if I'm a Zoom call.

But on a LinkedIn page, it's much different. We've got the scroll, we've got someone clicking, we've got someone distracted by their other tabs, and so we have to go in these little bits—and they're going to scan them. I do think the elevator pitch absolutely should be woven into the LinkedIn profile, but I would try to squeeze in some of those words I usually use into your headline. That's where I put them first, because that once you get into your “About” section it's a much different formula.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. So then coming back to our original topic of this idea of going from Engagement to Enchantment, what do you think are the differences between the two? We've seen a lot of engagement on things, but whether somebody leaves “enchanted” or not—

Yeah!

—Customers or clients certainly do, but what about interactions out in the world on a daily basis?

There's a few things we can do, to do this. Engagement is like, “Hey, I'm paying attention,” which is what we want everyone to do. To me it's like a bare minimum of having a conversation. “Is someone paying attention to me? Okay, I’ll keep talking,” which to be honest, I’m not super comfortable doing. If they're just gonna stand there, and keep talking just because, okay, I got their attention—I want more, and so it's just not enough.

To really create what I call “Enchantment,” we are going to take them by the hand and lead them on a journey. We are going to look them directly in the eye and create an intimate conversation. We are going to make them feel as though we are talking directly to them. We do that by getting human: by using human phrases, by really resonating with not just their head, but also their heart—

Yeah!

—and getting vulnerable. Most people are. Why this is hard, is, it’s scary to be vulnerable—people are a little afraid to put themselves out there, and they're also very afraid to be specific—to really talk to that one target audience person that you want to reach.

Right! That idea of “Well, if I niche down, I might miss someone or something.” That's another indication that your mindset may be a little less than abundant, perhaps, and that's okay. We all do this. Like we hit these walls, we hit these ceilings of everything that we do.I think this is also a really good place to remind people that you don't constantly have to be telling a deeply intimate personal story—you can just tell a story. This is the storytelling portion of things. It's not “Once upon a time…” necessarily, but this whole idea of creating intimacy, creating connection, and creating authentic, heart centered, alignment with another human being. That is, we connect with these little stories. We're all wired for stories.

I would say even that storytelling’s become such a buzzword. The problem is that not everybody's good at telling a story, and that's okay. Not everyone's a storyteller, and so one trick is to remember what you said—it doesn't have to be vulnerable.For example, in my profile, I used to say something like, “There's nothing I love more than mining you for your magic and building you a great brand.” And then I say, “Except maybe chips and salsa, but otherwise you’re number one!” It just gets a giggle, right? It's sharing something about me that's not vulnerable or secret or anything, I just like chips and salsa!

But it makes me like a human instead of a company, and people just they just respond to that!

Right, exactly. Yeah. as well. Another point in your bio, you say, you know, you speak to audiences—speak and sometimes swear, in front of audiences—I do the same thing. The little bit of human internal conversation with these little moments that create connection and create this sense of “Oh, I know you.”

Right! Like, “Oh, I know you! You're like my neighbor” or “I know you! You're like my daughter.” Like there's a resonance there. I think you really hit it too with this. There is that storytelling, but it doesn't have to be much—not “I've got to tell this long story.”

No, no. I was just working with this absolutely brilliant chiropractor. He's invented this incredible machine to help people with low back pain. He's an older gentleman, credentials out the yin-yang, and he's about to be on his first podcast.

But the question that always gets asked in the beginning of a podcast—notice I didn't ask it—is, “Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me what brought you to this place.” Or “Tell me about your journey?” I hate that question.

It's a lazy question on the part of the host. Sorry guys, it is, and it is boring to the audience because everyone answers it the same way. They always answer it, “Once upon a time… Well, I lived in a small town, and I grew up, and I got this degree, and I started in this job, and…” Once upon a time stories—we are programmed to go to sleep when we hear “Once upon a time!”

That's a good point!

So all we did was have him say the main thing that he spent his whole life doing: “What's the main thing that you spend your time doing? What's the main thing—the outcome they reach?” He said, “I spent my entire career reducing people's pain and suffering without drugs or surgery, and it was actually back when I was in high school as a 90-pound weakling on a football team.”

People are like, “What?” It's a 180 to tell this beautiful little story. Now he's just a dude, you're hanging out with coffee, who's telling you a story. By the end of that very short story I might add—of how he kind of discovered the possibility of chiropractic through high school injury—everyone's like, “I love you!”

It is true! The thing is you have to be aware enough. A great exercise to get you to this is just asking yourself five or ten questions that I include in my Boot Factor brain questionnaires, like, “What do you think about work? What do you believe about humans?” Just those two, right like, something's come up, right?

You can journal on that for a month.

Right! They're like writing prompts. You just have to answer those, rather than “Where was I born?”

“What do you do really well, what's most important to you?” And I like to ask little silly things like, “What's on your nightstand? What's your favorite food? What could you not live without—not your phone!” It gets into people's habits, so that's really about digging and trying to show up in just this little way on your profile.

Let's get some people hooked up here with connecting with us further. So the best place, Andrea, for everyone to reach you is at TheBootFactor.com; is that where we want people to go and check things out?

That's right! You can go there, sign up with my scheduler—it's right on the front page. If you go there and mention the Facebook Live, you'll get a 20-minute, free LinkedIn lowdown session with me. And I'm telling you, we're gonna have fun!

Oh, I've done it with you. It's very enlightening.

Yeah! I don't do anything without like having a little bit a little bit of moxie, a little bit of craziness. And you really will get some quick answers that you can check off.

Kickass! So go to The Boot Factor, literally: Go to TheBootFactor.com, schedule a 20-minute LinkedIn conversation—it really is enlightening. I've done this with Andrea and she really will kick your ass in the most beautiful and loving way. And you need that—I know you know you need that.And if you want to connect further with me and with Twin Flames Studios go to TwinFlamesStudios.com and check out what we do there. Check out our audio library of podcasts and audiobooks. Also feel free to reach out on our contact page anytime. You can find us all over the social media networks—”the internets,” as it were—under our name, because we have done the work and we show up on Google.So there it is. So hey, Andrea, thanks for joining me from… Denver today?

Yeah, Denver.

Thanks for joining me from the mountains. I am in the flat, flat land of Florida, as we have this cross continental conversation in the time of COVID. Thanks everyone for joining us!

Got questions? Leave a comment and we'll talk to y'all soon.

Yeah!

Bye!

Interested in learning more about audiobooks and howyou can be using audio inyour writing career ?

Working with a Ghostwriter – What You Need to Know

Written by Robin Thompson on August 11, 2020. Posted in Audiobook Marketing, Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Productivity, Publishing.

You might have a book inside you, waiting to be written, yet lack the time, desire or discipline to sit down and put pen to page. Dana Micheli explains that’s where a ghostwriter comes in.

There is a saying that everyone has at least one book in them; however, not everyone has the time, desire or discipline to sit down and write it. That’s where a ghostwriter comes in. Here are some tips for finding the right person to get that story out of your head and onto the page.

As with any investment, you want to engage in some due diligence before beginning your search for a ghostwriter. Research the average length of the sort of book you want to write, typical ghostwriting rates, and what is included (for example, additional research or a book proposal). You should learn enough to prepare a list of questions before meeting with someone to discuss your project.

Choosing a writer

Ghostwriting is a highly collaborative process, one that requires trust and compatibility. You’ll likely be providing this person with deeply personal or proprietary information, so you want to make sure you have a rapport with them. Healthy communication is key. You always have final say over what goes into your book and what’s “off the record”; this means that while a good ghostwriter will offer you their opinion, they should never push you into including something you’re not comfortable with. Also keep in mind that some details may be problematic from a legal standpoint. A ghostwriter is not a lawyer and should not be relied upon as such; however, they should be able to point out red flags with regard to certain names or facts and advise you to exclude them, change them, or consult an attorney.

Some things to discuss when interviewing a ghostwriter

What does their process look like? I interview someone at least twice at the beginning so I can get enough information to create the book outline and, more importantly, get a sense of their voice. Once the outline has been finalized, I let the client decide whether they would like to deliver the rest of the content/messaging through interviews, material they have written, or audio files they record on their iPhone when they feel inspired. They must also be available to answer any questions I have about the subject matter, and review the material as I send it. Asking about the process will give you a good idea of your time commitment to the project.
Writing samples and references: While it certainly makes sense to ask for writing samples, it’s important to understand that they may not be on point with your subject matter. This is okay. What you really need to know is whether the person can write in an engaging, intelligent fashion, as well as in different voices and for various audiences.
Does their contract have clear terms? This includes things like confidentiality, copyright ownership, whether they receive credit of authorship (some ghostwriters do and some do not), the payment schedule, and overall timeframe for the project.

The manuscript is complete. Now what?

Actually, I like to have this discussion before the writing begins. Authors have a few different options with regard to publishing – for example, they can self-publish, engage a small publishing house, or seek a literary agent who will pitch the manuscript for them. There are pros and cons to each, and your choice will depend on several factors such as budget and marketing goals. You'll also want to consider different formats such as e-books and audiobooks. You don’t have to have all the answers from the outset, but it is prudent to get all the facts so that by the time the book is finished you have a clear plan on how to get it to market.

It can be challenging to find the right ghostwriter, but the rewards – a highly productive partnership and a top quality book – are well worth it!

Dana Micheli is a ghostwriter, copy editor, book doctor, and owner of Writers In The Sky (WITS). She has written and edited numerous works of fiction and nonfiction, including novels, memoirs, and news articles, as well as résumés and business/marketing documents. While she works with a wide variety of genres, she most often takes projects of a spiritual nature, including books by and about mediums, Reiki masters, empaths, lightworkers and starseeds.

Before pursuing her writing career full-time, Dana worked as a Systems Advocate for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, where she lobbied state and federal politicians on behalf of victims of abuse. She also served as the Manager of PR/Communications for The New York Women's Foundation, where she was responsible for writing press releases and articles for the website, organizing events, and liaising with the media. In addition, she has worked for several media outlets, writing and researching legal, political and human interest stories for print, online and television. In late 2010, she began working for WITS founder Yvonne Perry.

Dana has a B.A. in English from Southern Connecticut State University and a Juris Doctor from New York Law School. She lives in New York City.

Dana Micheli – Ghostwriter, Copy Editor, Book Doctor, and Owner of Writers In The Sky

We are ready to help you through the audiobook process

How a Virtual Book Tour Can Expand Your Audience

Written by Robin Thompson on July 28, 2020. Posted in Audiobook Marketing, Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Networking, Publishing, Vocal Leadership.

Wondering how to safely promote your book? Simple! Do a virtual book tour. Check out this article where Jackie Lapin shows you how to launch yours

If you are an author or leader with a mission or message, then the pandemic may have actually handed you an unexpectedly positive gift!

While the number of podcasts has been growing exponentially all on its own (now reaching more than 1 million), the number of listeners for podcasts AND radio shows during this shelter-at-home period has skyrocketed.

Even when people begin returning to work, many will still maintain their new “podcast habits” because of their allegiance to new hosts and the vital information they offer. A whole new world has opened up for the listener.

Now, couple that with a figure I just saw that book sales are up 777% since the shut-in began!

While this is a misfortune for so many, for the book marketer it is a perfect storm. And you can stay home and be safe, while still reaching millions of ears.

Virtual Book Tours are supplanting the old notion of a physical in-person book tour…and with the fact that fewer and fewer people are actually buying in brick-and-mortar bookstores, a radio/podcast tour is an ideal opportunity to reach people not only across state lines, but internationally as well.

A Virtual Book Tour is best launched once your book is available for readers to purchase online, and podcast and radio hosts can be sent a physical copy of the book. Believe it or not, in this era of everything digital, show hosts want a real, old fashioned book to read. They don’t want to read it online or on a digital device.

This isn’t a good strategy for pre-orders, as hosts can get annoyed if their listeners are stuck waiting a month or two to get the book they ordered during or after the show.

But that doesn’t mean you should wait till the last minute to execute. You need to be planning well in advance, selecting the dates you want to be on the air, and then reverse engineer. Figure that if you want the hosts to read the book before interviewing you, you must allow one week for the book to arrive in the mail (preferably using the lower cost “media mail”) and then allow the host two weeks to read the book. So start soliciting the hosts at least a month or so before you want to be doing the interviews.

Now many hosts will be booking for months ahead, as they have already filled up the interviews closer in time. Assume that your interviews can be scattered out as far as five months in advance—which actually gives you plenty of time to work them into your schedule without being overwhelmed. Unlike the “old days,” when everything was crammed into the first 90 days because bookstores would start returning books to the publisher if they didn’t see sales movement, today a book campaign is a marathon, not a sprint. And the radio/podcast shows welcome self-published authors, not just the traditionally published. Only national TV shows and the biggest NPR shows will snub self-published authors today.

To get booked on your Virtual Book Tour you should have three things ready to go:

A compelling pitch letter that answers the host’s question of “Why you?”—What are you bringing to the table that is distinctive, helpful, newsworthy or unique?
A comprehensive media kit with a release on the book, your extended bio, a short on-air introduction, the 20 questions you want to be asked (20 because most interviews are now one hour), your website and your social media links
And, if your book is a gateway to other products and services, a free offer that you can also promote on the show that gets people to give you their email. This should have a simple and easy to remember URL. Buy a domain that is memorable to make this easy for folks to remember and for you to deliver.

So don’t lament that the virus crashed your original book tour plans. This is a great opportunity to build momentum without leaving your home. A Virtual Book Tour is a great way to launch a book, revitalize an older book, continue to sell your products using your book as the hook for the interview, or build your movement.

Click here to discover the 20 Factors That Will Tip the Scales in Your Favor to Get Booked on a Podcast

Jackie Lapin is a leader in helping entrepreneurs, authors, practitioners, speakers, leaders and messengers connect with their next followers around the globe. For the past 10 years, her internationally acclaimed Conscious Media Relations has been providing radio/podcast tours and speaking engagements to support leaders and authors. Conscious Media Relations offers authors to 9000 podcasts and radio shows, guaranteeing 30 interviews. Learn more at Conscious Media Relations and Speaker Tunity Cities

Jackie Lapin – founder of Conscious Media Relations, and accomplished Book Marketing Coach to help emerging authors navigate the marketing of their books

How (And Why) To Get Started In The Podcast Space

Written by Robin Thompson on May 21, 2020. Posted in Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Podcasting, Vocal Leadership, Voice.

When thinking about getting into the podcast space, business leaders and companies can consider several low-risk ways to make use of this powerful communication and marketing medium.

When computers and the internet were first becoming popular, they began to change the way we do business — ranging from advertising and marketing to obtaining clients, taking payments, record-keeping and everything in between.

And with the advent of email, all of a sudden, we could send information to our clients and colleagues quickly and easily at any time of the day or night. Email assisted us in the rapid transmission of important documents, as well as gradually replacing phone calls to document information (or confirming the content of conversations after the fact).

Fast forward a couple of decades: Computers have infiltrated virtually every aspect of our lives to the point where we carry a hand-held version with us everywhere. Smartphones are not phones that also happen to have some computer features. They are computers that also happen to be phones.

Because of the many benefits of “virtual offices,” especially when employees can be anywhere in the world, we are more reliant than ever on video consultations for business meetings. In our increasingly isolated lives, we are turning to social visits on video, too. And of course, there are the countless hours that disappear into the black hole of social media (which is sometimes business-related, though often is not).

With 28% of Americans saying they’re “almost constantly” online, according to a Pew Research Center poll, I believe we are overloaded with technology. As a result, some of us are trying to mitigate the impact screen time can have on us mentally, physically, emotionally and socially. “Screen-Free Week” is just one example of efforts to rediscover the joys of life beyond screens.

At the same time, our interest in listening to podcasts has been rising steadily over the past few years. According to Edison Research’s Infinite Dial report, The Podcast Consumer 2019, the percentage of people who have ever listened to a podcast increased to 51% in 2019, which equates to an estimated 144 million people. In 2010, that percentage was only at 23%.

Why podcasts?

As the owner of a company that specializes in audiobook publishing, podcasting and publicity, I’ve seen there are several reasons why some people find podcasts to be much more appealing than video. First, there’s the portability aspect. Audio is available when you can’t read or watch anything, which increases the likelihood that the message is actually being heard.

Second, many listeners appreciate being able to enjoy podcasts while doing other tasks, such as commuting to and from work, doing household chores or working out. Podcasts can also be highly engaging, with 52% of people listening to entire episodes and 41% listening to most of them, according to that same report by Edison Research. Considering it’s often reported that our attention spans are shrinking, this is impressive for long-form media content.

Podcasts can help you build relationships with your audiences and explore topics on a deeper level. In my experience, they’re also easier to distribute and quicker to produce. In the two or three hours it might take to shoot a high-quality video, between three and five podcast episodes could be recorded (depending on how long you want each episode to be).

Hosting a professional, high-quality video requires a special skill set that not everyone has. This is why some find it much easier to feel relaxed, comfortable and authentic when there isn’t the pressure of a camera. When recording a podcast, you don’t have to be concerned with how you look or whether the lighting, background or angle is just right; you just have to show up and deliver great content.

How To Start A Podcast Yourself

When considering getting started with podcasting, business leaders and companies can consider several low-risk ways to make use of this medium.

1. Encourage your executives and senior leaders to share their knowledge as guests on podcasts. Many podcast hosts are actively seeking powerful stories and advice to share with their audiences. I’ve also found that the experience that leaders receive in preparing and learning to be expert guests elevates communication skills that transfer back to the boardroom and team leadership.

2. Start an internal podcast. This can help enhance communication, build culture and showcase the talents and accomplishments of your team and clients. Companies like Trader Joe’s, American Airlines and JP Morgan have all taken this approach.

3. Consider producing a shorter podcast series. These short series can consist of eight to 10 episodes around a central theme. In the end, you’ll have a complete set of content your marketing team can share and repurpose in a myriad of ways.

That said, there are some challenges leaders face that you could consider before entering the world of podcasting. For example, I’ve found some leaders don’t like the sound of their own voice, so they’re reluctant to record anything. Leaders are also very busy, and podcasting can add to your already-packed daily schedule, which leads to a third common challenge: the return on investment. If you don’t see the expected ROI right away, you might become discouraged.

Soon, I’ll write in-depth on how you can overcome these challenges. In the meantime, consider which of the three options above is the best fit for you and your company to start making the most of this powerful medium. Consider for yourself: What are the stories your company or brand has to share with the world?

There is no denying that the interest in podcasts has only been steadily increasing since its inception. With nearly 30 million podcast episodes and 90 million monthly listeners in 2019, there is something for everyone. By taking action on one of the areas listed above (and keeping some of the challenges you might face in mind), you can begin your own podcast journey and connect with potential clients, your team and current customers.

Want to learn more about podcasting for your business?

Engaging Influencers in Your Content Marketing: 5 New Rules for The Influence Game

Written by Robin Thompson on April 30, 2020. Posted in Blog, Business Development, Leadership, Marketing, Networking, Vocal Leadership.

No one was ready for influencer marketing. Almost overnight, through the power of social media, everyone from fitness models to grumpy cats had millions of eyes on them. Here's how to make influencer marketing work for you.

No one was ready for influencer marketing. Almost overnight, through the power of social media, everyone from fitness models to grumpy cats had millions of eyes on them. Best of all, they did it with a $600 smartphone and an internet connection.

Companies rushed to capitalize; the newly minted “influencers” rushed to monetize; companies spending millions on 30-second Super Bowl ads were left scratching their heads.

What Is Influencer Marketing?

Influencer marketing refers to promoting a brand by partnering with an “influencer”—a person with a popular personal brand and a large social media following.

Many companies that play the influencer game do it wrong because they don’t understand the new unspoken rules. As influence marketing matures into the commercial landscape, here are five new rules to engage influencers in your content marketing.

1. Pick the Right Influencers

It used to be that hundreds of thousands of followers on Facebook or Instagram was enough of an indicator of influence. This is no longer the case. Users can and do pad their follower count to make themselves look more popular.

Instead, look for user engagement. A social media personality has millions of followers? How many people have liked or commented on his/her recent posts? Do people respond when they ask questions in their stories? How fawning and enthusiastic are the replies?

If you identify a genuine influencer, make sure your brand resonantes with the influencer’s brand. Otherwise the influencer will not want to do business with you.

“But I’ll pay you” doesn’t cut it with an influencer. If their followers see them as inauthentic or a shill, a pitchman for off-brand products, their image will be tarnished, their influence decreased. Influence is lightning in a bottle, and a true influencer won’t risk losing it for a little bit of money.

2. Give First, Then Get

Reciprocity is key to cultivating influencer relationships. Remember, an influencer doesn’t need to help you. They have to want to help you.

Before you ask favors of an influencer, like social media mentions or a collaboration, give back first. Start by engaging with their social content—likes, comments, views, etc. Engage with multi-word comments.

Give them anything of value you can—freebies, tips, exclusive access … especially if it’s something they can turn into content for their audience. Engaging content is the gold standard of social media influence.If the influencer sells products or services, consider becoming a customer. Reciprocal business is big in the influence game.

3. Deal With Them Directly

Even if it seems like the appropriate point of contact, influencers don’t want to deal with your PR department. They want to deal with you, the founder, the CEO, the senior manager, the beating heart of the organization.

Influencers build brands by sharing freely of themselves in public. They attract engaged viewers by being authentic. Give of yourself authentically, and you are speaking their language.

PRO TIP: Try for facetime with an influencer. See they publicize their upcoming attendance at an event, convention, party, or meetup. Can you attend as well? Nothing engages an influencer like face-to-face contact. In fact, that applies to everyone, not just influencers.

4. Give Them a Good Story

Influencers aren’t impressed by great marketing copy; they want to tell a story.

Social media channels are like personal TV channels. People watch them for the programs, not the commercials. You want to be one of the influencer’s programs, not one of the commercials.

You can do that by offering the influencer your brand’s story or narrative. Whether it’s the story of your founding, a recent milestone, a customer interaction or other breakthrough, influencers can use interesting stories to provide value to their audience. That’s what they remain relevant.

5. Make Them Look Good

Many influencers make their bones by being “cool” or “hot” or “aspirational,” or at the very least authentic. Don’t undermine that, or they won’t be interested.

When you start asking an influencer to collaborate or pitch your product, make sure you present yourself in a way that flatters them, not just you. They should look savvy and “in the know” because of their involvement with you.

Interested in developing a strategy to play the new influencers game?