While the publishing industry has undergone a period of rapid transformation, publicity as an industry may be changing even faster.
For authors and experts like you, publicity is still an essential tool to grow your audience, establish credibility, and, yes, sell books. But gone are the days of simply getting meaningful PR by sending out a press release and hoping for the best.
The most effective strategies now focus on reaching the right audience, not the largest one.
Your approach must focus on specific markets and opportunities, delivering the right message during those opportunities, and creating long-term relationships.
This is why I recently hosted some of the leading experts with experience in both the publishing and publicity industries: Mary O’Donohue, Jess Todtfeld, and Marissa Eigenbrood to share insights on what works, what doesn’t, and how to turn media attention into real results. Our own CMO, Ken Course, also chimed in with some timely insights.
What's Changed and What Hasn't
Traditional media has avoided a complete fall from grace but is nowhere near its gold standard status of years past.
The reason? With the rise of algorithms and increasingly short attention spans, niche media opportunities have become the most influential source of PR.
This means podcasts, targeted articles, and industry blogs are more likely to attract the right people who will support your work long after a fleeting TV appearance.
That’s not to say traditional media has no value, but effective publicity today requires a more diverse strategy. Developing multiple media touchpoints will get you to results faster.
Where Should You Focus Your PR Efforts?
Many authors and experts dream of the “home run” scenario.
While big media opportunities are impressive to have on your website or resume, they don’t always generate book sales.
Mass market, or “chasing the big crowd,” often misses your most engaged audience.
Jess Todtfeld notes that while high-profile appearances look impressive, “The right podcast audience is more likely to buy your book.”
Mary O’Donohue emphasizes the importance of clarity: “Know your goals—visibility and book sales are not always the same thing.”
Marissa Eigenbrood advises balancing different types of opportunities. “Brand-building media and audience-building media should work together,” she says.
Strategic, targeted publicity will award you the long-term results you need.
Do's and Don'ts of Media Interviews
What to Do:
Deliver value and don’t overdo the sales pitch. “Media interviews are a marketing asset someone else pays to create. If you treat it like an infomercial, you’ll lose the audience.” – Mary O’Donohue
Have a “real” conversation. “TV and radio hosts want a conversation, not a monologue. Be personable and responsive.” – Marissa Eigenbrood
Prepare strong answers to questions and reinforce them with a strong takeaway. “When an interviewer asks about your book, don’t say, ‘That’s in chapter five.’ Instead, give them a strong takeaway that makes them want to know more.” – Jess Todtfeld
Don’t forget your call to action, but make sure to give answers with substance. “Your appearances should always direct people to your website where they can sign up for something valuable or to take the next step with you.” – Ken Course
What to Avoid:
Being overly promotional. “Your job isn’t to sell; it’s to showcase your expertise and give value. The audience will buy your book if they trust and connect with you.” – Mary O’Donohue
Relying on “one big interview.” “Media exposure is about frequency. Keep showing up in different outlets to build recognition and credibility.” – Jess Todtfeld
Don’t forget to repurpose your media. “After an interview, share it everywhere. Leverage your appearance for months by repurposing clips, quotes, and key moments.” – Marissa Eigenbrood
Remember, the goal for every appearance is connection, not promotion.
Turning Your Publicity into Actual Book Sales
In the end, you want your media to convert into actual results.
This means going from attention to action.
Marissa Eigenbrood emphasizes, “Media exposure builds awareness, but consumers need multiple interactions before making a purchase.”
How to Make Your Publicity Convert:
Always have a way to capture leads. “Rather than sending readers to Amazon, direct them to your website where they can engage with your brand and access exclusive content.” – Ken Course
Have a variety of valuable offers. “Create incentives like downloadable guides, private Q&A sessions, or limited-time discounts to turn interest into sales.” – Jess Todtfeld
Leverage each appearance for weeks or months afterward. “One interview can be turned into multiple marketing assets—blog posts, social media snippets, email content. Maximize every piece of media exposure.” – Mary O’Donohue
When your calls to action are clear and easy, it makes a big difference.
For example, one of our recent authors saw their book ranking jump from #650,000 to #97 on Amazon overnight after an online article linked directly to their book page.
The Tools You Need for Successful PR
Check out these amazing resources our panel shared to streamline your outreach and stay organized:
ListenNotes (free/paid) – A searchable podcast database to find relevant shows.
MuckRack– A tool for researching journalists, tracking their coverage, and finding media contacts.
RecurPost – A scheduling tool for automating social media posts and maintaining a consistent online presence.
Cision (higher cost) – A comprehensive PR database for advanced media outreach and journalist connections.
PodMatch – A platform for podcast hosts and guests to connect and schedule interviews.
And of course, be sure to check out our Twin Flames StudiosAuthor Resource Directory to find credible, experienced PR help.
This includes contact information from our panelists!
The key to success is having a diverse and refined approach.
This results in better media coverage, bigger results, and ensures that every appearance works harder for your book, your brand, and your audience.
I can’t wait to hear how you put these tips into practice!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
2025 is shaping up to be one of the biggest years of transformation for the publishing industry ever.
From groundbreaking AI tools to massive shifts in traditional publishing models, authors like you are navigating a wide range of challenges and exciting opportunities.
This is also why I recently hosted some of the leading experts in the publishing industry (and more of them are coming up here) Jane Friedman, Dale L. Roberts, and Andrea Fleck-Nisbet to explore the trends that you need to follow.
This is what you need to know to succeed with your project in the year ahead.
The Trends Changing the Publishing Industry Right Now
Hybrid Collaborations: The Best of Both Worlds
The publishing industry is changing their approach to partnering with authors in a big way.
The good news? A partnership gives authors like you access to wider retail markets while still retaining control over your digital rights.
Deals like this just weren’t possible in the past and traditional publishers weren’t as interested in them.
As a great example, check out Bloom Books, an imprint of Sourcebooks backed by Penguin Random House.
So what will this mean for you?
Hybrid collaborations will open doors for authors who have proven their market potential and want help scaling their success.
It’s a completely new type of marketplace.
AI’s (Obviously) Changing the Game
So, is it worth the hype yet?
Kind of…
But maybe not in the way you think.
AI is driving advances in translation, drafting, and audiobook production which makes publishing a lot more accessible. But there are a lot of warning flags popping up when it comes to copyright and author rights.
This is why tools like Created by Humans are helping ensure authors are compensated when their work is used to train AI models.
The legal and ethical battles over AI are still ongoing, which means it’s not going to be settled for a while yet.
Most importantly, while the technology is improving rapidly, it still lacks the nuanced touch of a human creator.
Should you be ignoring AI completely? Absolutely not. However, you should be carefully considering where and when to use it appropriately.
The Market Is Consolidating
In not so great news, many smaller distributors are starting to collapse.
This consolidation means narrowed options for indie authors and small presses while shifting the balance of power to larger distributors.
As a sad example, take a look at what recently happened with Diamond Comics.
What this means for you is that you likely won’t find as many options as you have in previous years.
The Opportunities You Need to Take Advantage of in 2025
It’s Easier than Ever to Engage Directly with Your Readers or Community
Your email list is still your most important asset and it’s more than a marketing tool—it’s your VIP lounge for building lasting connections.
Authors and publishers are building communities on social platforms that go beyond a single book sale.
This means you should be thinking of yourself as a community leader from the start.
Genre Interest is Shifting into Escapist Fiction and Reader Comfort (But Don’t Just Chase the Trends)
Readers are seeking comfort in uncertain times.
This means that genres like Cozy Fantasy are exploding in popularity. Think of it as your literary equivalent of a warm blanket and a cup of tea—hobbits optional. This trend of stories with low stakes and high vibes shows no signs of slowing.
But, while it’s tempting to jump on a bandwagon, authenticity really matters.
Writing what resonates with you and your audience is far more sustainable than chasing fleeting trends and will make it easier for you to maintain your community as discussed above.
You Have Access to More Data and Sales Opportunities Than Ever
Platforms like Benevity, LaterPress, and BookVault empower authors to sell directly to readers, retain higher royalties, and gather invaluable data about their audiences.
The great part: you get access to more data than you’ve ever had before!
Unlike traditional platforms like Amazon and Ingram, which only give you limited insights, direct sales platforms give you a clear view of your customers and buying trends.
Owning this data helps you:
Make smarter marketing decisions.
Build stronger connections with readers.
Optimize pricing and promotional strategies.
More and more, it's up to you to keep control of your list, sales, and community.
The tools are more accessible than ever.
Don’t Forget About Crowdfunding!
Crowdfunding may seem like it has come and gone, but that’s far from the case.
Kickstarter and other platforms are offering authors ways to fund your project while building excitement, community, and engagement the whole time.
For example, one author used Kickstarter to fund an entire national speaking tour while promoting their book—which changed the entire model of their launch.
Even When the Industry Changes, the Possibilities Are Still Huge
You’ll notice a theme in all of these points – expansion.
Yes, the model that has existed forever is going through a rude awakening. What most people think of when it comes to publishing doesn’t exist in the same way as before.
But, publishing in 2025 is still a world of possibilities.
And there’s still nothing quite like the impact of a book.
The future of publishing isn’t just about trends—it’s about how you as a leader, author, and creator tell stories that matter to your audience.
Want to see the entire hour with our expert panel? Watch it here!
I can’t wait to see what you create next.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
All the publishing world was abuzz in 2023 with the inclusion of AI Audiobooks on the “Big 5” retail outlets Audible, Google Books, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble, and Kobo. Impassioned pleas for authenticity have clashed with diatribes on accessibility and cost across virtual platforms and conference rooms alike.
In 2024, the news cycle on this topic has simmered down considerably, leaving some important questions unanswered.
Are AI narrated Audiobooks selling?
Is it cost effective to use AI narration for Audiobooks?
Does the technology actually work?
Will I damage my reputation by using AI narration?
What about any innovations or “special cases” where AI narration can help with Audiobook production or sales?
Are AI Narrated Audiobooks Selling?
The short answer is NO.
It turns out that in 2023, resistance to AI narrated Audiobooks intensified. Audiobook listeners reported they weren’t likely to listen to AI generated audiobooks, even if the voice of the author was cloned.
Reviewing the presence of AI audiobooks in the marketplace, there are fewer than two thousand AI voiced audiobooks on the market, most with not great reviews, if any reviews at all.
For contrast, remember that 2700 books a DAY are published in the US alone.
Let’s call this initial reception to AI narrated Audiobooks “cool to lukewarm at best.” With all the buzz around AI in general throughout 2023, why didn’t AI Audiobooks perform well?
I’ll sum it up in one sentence.
NO ONE WANTS A ROBOT VOICE IN THEIR EARS FOR 4, 5, OR 8 HOURS.
This isn’t new. I interviewed a former long-time employee of Learning Ally, a respected and long-standing company devoted to providing accessible materials for children with learning differences, Michael Kinsey. Michael specializes in audio production and, in particular, Audiobooks. He’s also one of our Audiobook directors here at Twin Flames Studios.
“When text to speech came out, we wanted to use the technology to make more books available and accessible. The problem was, no one wanted to listen to a synthetic voice,” explained Kinsey.
“For example, we had a text to speech version of the book The Outsiders, which was taught in a lot of high school English classes for many years. Not very many students accessed it. But when we brought in a professional Audiobook Narrator to create a new version, suddenly the Audiobook version became one of our top titles. Students were listening to the Audiobook even when they didn’t have an assignment related to it.”
While the state of text to speech technology has come leaps and bounds in recent years, our ears and brains are discerning. When it comes to longer-form content like Audiobooks and podcasts, the numbers show that the technology isn’t good enough yet to replicate the nuance of the human voice.
Is it Cost Effective to Use AI for Audiobook Narration?
I keep hearing AI Audiobook narration being referred to as “cost effective.” That implies that you can get the job done for less and still reap the benefits. But if AI narrated Audiobooks aren’t selling well, we can’t call this a cost effective solution.
AI Audiobook Narration cost can range from free to about 5K per Audiobook. For the sake of comparison, our full Audiobook packages tend to range from 3-5K in either the case of author narration or professional narration.
This isn’t just about numbers; it’s about impact. Just think what those 250 people will accomplish by taking action in their lives, in their businesses, in their communities – because of what they learned as a result of your book.
If you go with one of the free options, you’re going to spend a considerable amount of time learning how to edit your Audiobook to get it to a finished product, and not even a finished product that would compare well with a human narrated audiobook.
Does the Technology for AI Audiobook Narration Really Work?
I do believe that at some point, AI audio will become pretty much indistinguishable from human voices. Since it’s not there yet though, here’s what we know is possible, based on research across Audiobook platforms and AI voice options.
1. AI audio narration voices are available in more than 25 different languages. HOWEVER, the translations are wildly inaccurate, particularly for long-form audio like an audiobook.
Want to know more about how inaccurate? Leave a comment on this post and if there’s enough interest, we’ll do a video demo!
Besides errors in translation from language to language, here are some other pitfalls of the current technology that it doesn’t handle well:
2. Dialects and diverse expressions
For example, one publisher of Judaic books noted to me that he had to abandon AI as a feasible option because AI can’t make the “Jewish” sounds denoted by Hebrew glottal [ʔ] (א) and [h] (ה), uvular [χ] (ח), and pharyngeal [ʕ] (ע).
3. Pronunciation issues and regionalisms
Getting AI to correctly pronounce names, or understand if you want the word “aunt” pronounced “ant” or “awnt,” or if you’re a Canadian author and want “process” pronounced “pro-cess” instead of “praw-cess,” is an exercise in frustration.
I could give you at least 50 examples of single words that have multiple pronunciations like the ones above.
4. Emotional nuance, pauses, and humor
We know from decades of sales data that what sells an Audiobook is the quality of the narration. The more a narrator, be they the author or a voice actor, feels like they’re right there with you and drawing you in, the better and more impactful the audiobook.
AI doesn’t know how to breathe, and lacks the natural cadence and pacing of human voices. This not only gives us that “uncanny valley” feeling when we listen, it also impacts the performance. AI doesn’t understand where nuanced pauses should go, or sometimes what words need to be emphasized. It definitely doesn’t understand jokes, irony, or sarcasm.
Imagine a romance novel where the narrator doesn’t understand longing, or desire…
Imagine a business book where you’re trying to learn something important, but the pauses aren’t in the right place, or the author meant something to be ironic and now you’re left feeling confused.
Our Senior Audiobook Director, Paul Stefano, has narrated many, MANY dozens of Audiobooks in his career, both fiction and nonfiction. Recently, he decided to license his voice to a reputable AI narration company, and they sent him a professionally edited audio sample of his AI voice clone. The voice clone was created from a recording of an audiobook that Paul owns the rights to, and this represents the best current technology in AI cloning that is easily accessible to the public.
Listen to both brief samples, and then imagine listening to each voice for 4, 6, 8, or 10 hours.
AI Narration Sample:
Natural Sample:
Will I Damage my Reputation by Using AI narration?
The Internet has a long memory. Back when The Gifts of Imperfection was originally published in 2010, Brene Brown’s publisher didn’t have her narrate the audiobook. In fact, the narrator wasn’t even close to Brene’s vocal style.
Things did not go well.
The book sold 3 million copies, but the audiobook did NOT.
One of the biggest requests that Brene had over the years was a version of that audiobook with her narrating, because Brene is highly known for her voice. She originally went viral via her TED Talk, she has podcasts, and her candor and combination of deep research and insight combined with a naturally enthusiastic “folksy” presence gives Brene a vocal thumbprint that is unmistakable.
What does this have to do with AI?
Well, if a highly produced Audiobook plus a professional, but ‘off the mark’ casted narrator hurt Brene’s Audiobook sales and ratings that much, just imagine what the reaction would be to an AI narrator.
When Brene released the 10th anniversary edition of The Gifts of Imperfection, she narrated a new version of the audiobook, and the ratings and reviews speak for themselves.
Not everyone is going to have Brene Brown’s level of notoriety and success, but she didn’t start out a multiple NYT bestseller. She was a college professor and researcher. If you are planning on being known for your voice as an expert, speaker, or industry leader, you need to cherish and cultivate your voice as a unique asset. If you’d like to get started with some exercises to help you develop your voice, here are some tools and resources for you.
What About Any Innovations or “Special Cases” Where AI Can Help with Audiobook Production or Marketing?
Yes, there are several places where AI is super helpful!
Overall, short-form content like social media is a good place for the current state of AI audio. We’re already used to hearing AI voices in social media on many viral reels, and this can save creators time and energy. Plus, if you’re not someone who loves being on camera, using an AI voiceover can work just fine for short content.
I personally love a good doggo voice over.
AI tools for promoting your Audiobook are becoming more abundant as well, which we love. I’m a fan of Vidyo.ai, which automatically edits longer video into clips for social media, blogs, etc.
PRO TIP: Convert your Audiobook files from .mp3 to .mp4 and get the AI to suggest short, interesting clips of your audiobook for promotional Videograms. You can also reach out to us to create these for you, they’re great for evergreen marketing campaigns, and cross promoting your articles, blogs posts, and newsletters with your audiobook.
And as a final thought, we’d love to see AI continue to evolve so that we could use it to make Audiobook edits. While an entire AI Audiobook narration is hard on our ears and brains, being able to replace some words using AI narration would be a great use of time, energy, and money for authors, narrators, and producers/publishers alike.
Audiobooks continue to sell at an accelerated rate, with double digit growth year on year for the last 12 years. They’re an enduring format, but what makes an Audiobook truly endure the test of time is the quality of narration. If you’re ready to create an Audiobook that you’re proud of for decades to come, contact us and let’s get your work into more ears and hearts.
Read and watch more Frequently Asked Questions about Audiobooks and benefit from our expertise, or Contact Us for more information and forthright advice about producing, distributing, and profiting from Audiobooks. Plus, download our Vocal Leadership Workout to develop and refine your the most influential tool you have — your voice!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
Let’s get real for a second and talk about how to write a book for today's market and what it really means to do so.
The book publishing industry tells people to make dreams meet paper.
How? Write a book. They’ll tell you, “Publish that book! It’s your ticket to authority, uniqueness, and that indescribable je ne sais quoi that an expert needs to stand out.
But here’s the tea…
Peeling Back the Curtain on Publishing
Every single day, the U.S. greets 2,700 new titles. Yet, catching those 100,000+ sales is like finding a unicorn in a haystack.
The average self-published author?
They’re looking at 250 sales. But before you toss your manuscript out the window, hold up – because this is where it gets interesting.
The Mighty Power of 250
Imagine those 250 sales not as numbers, but as people – each one an individual connecting deeply with your message. This select audience could be the very people you’ve been aiming to reach, ready to champion your cause.
This isn’t just about numbers; it’s about impact. Just think what those 250 people will accomplish by taking action in their lives, in their businesses, in their communities – because of what they learned as a result of your book.
True Influence vs. Follower Count
In our digital era, it’s easy to get caught up in the follower frenzy. But here’s the kicker: real influence isn’t about how many, but about how much – the depth of connection, the conversations sparked, the actions taken. Authors like Brene Brown and Malcolm Gladwell didn’t just gather an audience; they built communities moved to action by their words.
Their books came first.
Nonfiction: A Catalyst for Change
Nonfiction books have this incredible capacity to not just share knowledge but to inspire action.
Think Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring or Betty Friedan’s The Feminine Mystique – these weren’t just books; they were movements that continue to shape our world today, many decades after they were published.
Your book could be the next catalyst for change, reaching those who are ready to listen and act.
How to WriteaBook in the Digital Age
While the digital world whirls with tweets and snaps, nonfiction books stand as islands of depth and reflection. They offer a pause, a chance to dive deep, and a platform for authors to share their most potent thoughts.
The advent of digital media has revolutionized the way knowledge is consumed, giving rise to questions about the relevance of traditional books in a fast-paced world. Yet, despite the proliferation of social media, short videos, and online courses, books remain unparalleled in their impact. Here's why:
Depth of Engagement: Books offer a depth of thought and analysis that short-form content simply cannot match. They allow authors to explore ideas comprehensively, fostering a deeper connection and understanding with their audience.
Perceived Authority: Publishing a book establishes an author's credibility in a way that transient digital content cannot. It is a tangible testament to an author's expertise and commitment to their field.
Longevity: Unlike social media posts or videos that quickly fade into the background, books have a lasting presence. They continue to be cited, referenced, and read years, if not decades, after their publication. Simply put, books endure.
Market Reach: Books open up opportunities to reach audiences beyond digital boundaries, including speaking engagements, workshops, and academic citations.
To Write, or Not to Write?
So, we circle back to the big question: Should you write and publish that book? If you’re looking to do more than just win a popularity contest – if you’re aiming to truly resonate and make a lasting impact – then yes, a thousand times yes.
This journey is about tapping into the unique power of books to connect, to inspire, and to mobilize. It’s about embracing the opportunity to share your voice, your vision, and your message with the world – and maybe, just maybe, change it for the better.
Writing and publishing a book isn’t just an item on a to-do list; it’s a path to creating ripples of change, fostering a community of engaged readers, and contributing something timeless to the global conversation. So, are you in? Because the world’s waiting for what you have to say.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
So many writers dream of publishing their books, but if you don’t know where to start, the process of actually publishing a book can seem daunting! The process of publishing a book can seem like it’s shrouded in secrecy.
In particular, writers who have never published a book before often are filled with questions about how to publish, what their publishing options are, when to contact a publisher, what marketing will look like, and much more.
Here’s some good news: even though you might be overwhelmed, you can publish a book—even if you’ve never published anything before! There are so many amazing first-time authors whose stories have changed readers’ lives, and your story deserves to be told, too!
To make the concept of publishing a little more approachable, we’re going to share five things writers who want to publish their first book should know about the world of publishing!
1. There are a variety of ways you can publish your book.
When writers think about publishing their books, they often think about one of two things: working with big-name publishers (also known as traditional publishing) or self-publishing. And while these are both options, there’s a third option as well—working with a hybrid publisher.
Let’s break down the three most common ways books are published:
Traditional publishing: you typically submit your manuscript or pitch your manuscript to a publisher, often through an agent; the publisher in these cases often has more control of your manuscript, the layout of the book, etc., and the royalties you receive can vary from publisher to publisher.
Hybrid publishing: this is sometimes considered an option that’s in between traditional publishing and self-publishing. You still maintain a good amount of control over your book, but you’ll also work with editors and publishers who can do much of the technical work that’s involved in publishing a book (such as ensuring your book makes it to wholesalers, formatting your book, etc.).
Self-publishing: you have ultimate control over your book, and while you have the potential to keep more of the money you make, you also have to pay for editors, illustrators, marketing, etc., directly, and you will need to research the ins and outs of what’s needed to publish your book on particular platforms (obtaining your ISBN, creating and formatting your documents, etc.).
So, what’s the best option for you? It depends on your timeline, budget, patience, and goals. If you want to publish and retain total control over the process, want to keep the bulk of what you make off your book, are okay with doing some research, and you’re willing to independently hire editors and/or illustrators, self-publishing might be a good option. Hybrid publishing is a great option for writers who want to maintain control over their books but need some help with formatting, editing, and other behind-the-scenes things involved in publishing. Traditional publishing can be time-consuming, especially for first-time authors who don’t have an agent, but pitching your manuscript to a traditional publisher can lead to your book being picked up in some cases (though it’s not always guaranteed, of course).
Ultimately, none of these options are “better” or “worse” than the others—it all depends on what you want!
2. You can contact a publisher before your book is complete.
If you want to work with a traditional or hybrid publisher, you don’t have to wait until your book is complete to reach out. In fact, it can be useful to start working with a publisher well before you plan to publish your book!
Though every book will vary (and some publishers will have a preference as to when you submit your manuscript), manuscripts often go through several iterations. After a first draft is written, editors who work with your publisher (if you choose to work with a hybrid publisher or traditional publisher) will review your manuscript to look for any grammatical, technical, or developmental issues that may need to be corrected.
For authors who want to self-publish, it’s often a good idea to contact an editor (or several editors, depending on the length of your manuscript and the genre you’re writing in) soon after you’ve finished your first draft. Being open to revisions and suggestions from experts can help you create a more polished book, which translates to giving readers a better reading experience.
3. You don't worry too much about formatting if you're using a hybrid publisher or a traditional publisher.
Often, people worry about making their manuscript look a particular way before sending it off to a publisher, and while you do want your work to be legible, the format you send your book in is likely not the way your book will ultimately look if you work with a traditional or hybrid publisher!
That doesn't mean you want your formatting to be a total mess, of course—after all, being organized as you write will make the process of publishing less time-consuming!—but you don't necessarily have to spend hours or lots of money on trying to format your book yourself.
Most publishers are familiar with taking manuscripts written in Google Docs or Microsoft Word and formatting them as needed. Formatting is a part of the publishing process that publishers often take care of, so you don't need to buy pricey software that may not be needed on your end, to begin with.
If you're self-publishing, depending on the platform(s) you're using, you still likely won't have to spend too much on formatting; many platforms, such as Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP), offer templates that can be used for formatting.
Of course, if you're self-publishing and are struggling to get your format to look just right, don't hesitate to reach out to an expert who can help! You can find experienced individuals willing to help you format your book on sites like Upwork or Fiverr, for example.
4. It’s never too soon to start marketing.
Regardless of what method you choose to use when publishing your book, it’s never too early to begin your marketing efforts.
When working with a hybrid or traditional publisher, some (if not most, in some cases) of the marketing efforts will be done for you. With a hybrid publisher, you may be offered marketing packages that you can use when marketing your book, or you can choose to go solo if you’re a marketing whiz.
And when you self-publish, you’ll be the one who’s responsible for your marketing; in some cases, you might want to hire a professional, but some authors prefer to do the marketing on their own.
There are several great ways to market yourself and your book well before it’s published, including by creating a mailing list, talking about the publishing and writing processes on a blog or social media platform, creating a website for your book, paying for ads, appearing on podcasts…the list goes on!
By marketing your book before it’s published, you can build up an audience. An audience that knows you (aka a warm market) is generally more likely to purchase something of yours than an audience that doesn’t know you (aka a cold market). Plus, building an audience early ensures you can continue to share about future projects beyond your first book!
Of course, you can also market your book well after it’s been published, too, especially if your book is coming out in new formats, such as an audiobook, after the first printed edition of your book has been published.
5. You define what success looks like when it comes to your book!
Every writer has a different reason for publishing their book. Some writers want to entertain readers, some want to educate and advocate for a particular group of individuals, and others just want to share a story that’s important to them.
If you’re working with a hybrid or traditional publisher, spend some time talking to them about what your expectations are for your book. They can help you figure out what’s realistic and manageable, and what steps you need to take to meet your goals.
And if you choose to go the self-publishing route, it’s still important to clearly define your goals for your book—and do a bit of research to learn the best ways to meet them. You don’t have to wait until you’ve finished your book to start this process!
Just because you’ve never published a book before doesn’t mean the process has to be overly complex or difficult!
Whether you choose to self-publish, work with a hybrid publisher, or work with a traditional publisher, you can create and share your story with the world—it just takes some time, patience, and a willingness to learn and accept some outside help when needed.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
More About Kim Eley
Specializing in personal development books and thoughtful children's books is the mission of Kim Wells Eley’s company, KWE Publishing; the common thread of both is to help people see what's possible and shift to a more enjoyable, fulfilled life. she says. As a writing coach and publishing consultant, Kim gives clients six steps to make their books a reality.
Kim is happily married to her BFF and has been for over 20 years. She’s a speaker; an author; a resident of Prince George, Virginia; a cat lover; a collector of orchids; and she gets all of her news from comedy shows.
Have you ever considered that your voice is an instrument and your thoughts and beliefs are the music you’re playing? If you want to learn how to “tune” your voice, take a listen to my guest appearance on the new episode of the More than a Few Words podcast, hosted by Lorraine Ball.(More Than a Few Words Podcast with Lorraine Ball, September 2021)
Recently, Tina joined Lorraine Ball on the More than a Few Words podcast to talk about how to use your voice to deepen your connection with others, enhance your credibility, and strengthen your leadership.
In this episode:
You'll discover the 5-7 different vocal qualities that are highly associated with credibility, trustworthiness, and perceptions of leadership
How these elements impact your career and income
Techniques to sound more professional, confident, and knowledgable
Lorraine BallHave you ever thought about what an amazing instrument your voice is? How the tone, the pitch and the tempo of your speaking voice can change how people view you? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, here's the show. Welcome to More Than a Few Words – a marketing conversation for business owners. MTFW is part of your digital toolbox and this is your host, Lorraine Ball. I grew up in New York. I have a slightly nasal New York accent. That's part of my voice. But over the years, I've certainly worked to try to moderate that. And it is important that you do, because you can create an impression with your voice. That's what we're going to talk about today. And I couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with than Tina Dietz. Tina's an award-winning and internationally-acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, corporate podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert. She has been featured on media outlets, including ABC, INC.com, Huffington Post, and Forbes.Tina's first podcast, The StartSomething Show, was named by INC Magazine as one of the top 35 podcasts for entrepreneurs. Her company, Twin Flames Studios, amplifies the influence of brands and leaders through high ROI audiobook and podcasting solutions. Tina, welcome to the show!
Tina DietzThanks, Lorraine. I really appreciate you having me on.
I am so excited to have you here, because this is something I've worked on a lot over the years and I think it's really important. But why don't we start with the question: What are the important qualities of someone's voice that makes them an effective leadership voice?
There’s about seven different qualities that are highly associated with someone's credibility, trustworthiness, and perception of leadership when it comes to vocal qualities. And the research around this is a little bit astounding. For example, Duke University did a study of almost 1000 CEOs, and found that on the topic of pitch alone, CEOs who had a lower pitch to their voice, had more tenure, commanded larger companies, had more perception of credibility and leadership, and made more money to the tune on average of an additional $180,000 per year.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
So that's really reassuring to someone like me, because as soon as you started talking about it, I heard the deeper bass tone, having come out of a corporate environment, lots of men, I'm like, “Of course that sounds better to their ears.” And that's something that's really hard for me to change. But I can work on the flow, the pacing, some of those other qualities that make me sound more confident.
Exactly. But you know, and the good news is, is that everybody's voice is like a fingerprint. It's unique to us. So if you have an unusual voice, it doesn't mean that you have to fit into a cookie-cutter situation to be unique. You just need to be more of yourself. And the more that you work your voice out like a muscle, like you would take care of your body—it's a very complex musculature in there and your lungs and your throat and your neck and your shoulders, your face, everything combined—you know this, this beautiful orchestra happening inside of your body to get your voice out into the world. If you pay attention to it and work it out, it'll do wonderful things for you.
As a business owner, I'm thinking, “Okay, I'm not going to be doing big presentations, I'm not going to be standing in front of a room of 100 people. Does my voice really matter?”
Yes, yes, it does. It absolutely does. Because business is all about relationships. And every relationship you form, whether it's with a prospective client, it's with colleagues, it's at a networking group, it's on a phone call, it doesn't matter, you bring your voice with you everywhere you go. And you owe it to yourself, and you owe it to the growth of your business, your company, to bring your voice with you and to have it be a representation of who you are as a leader, and who you are as a brand.
Do you think that you have a different voice when you're at home or at work? Is it one voice? Or does it change based on the situation? And those are obviously the two extremes, but does your voice change in different situations?
Yeah, yeah, I think it does. Because we have a range, right? Just like you have a vocal range low to high, we also have a range of expression. And sometimes the expression that you use in business is not necessarily going to be the same expression you use with your kids.
That being said, I think most people draw two strong boundaries between what's in business, and what's really in your heart. And the more integrated we become from the inside and the outside, the more effective we become as leaders. So vocal leadership isn't really all about the external voice, it's about the dance between your internal voice and your external voice. It's analogous to a virtuoso musician. So, if you imagine your external voice is the instrument you're playing, and your internal voice—your thoughts, your beliefs, your message, all the things that make you who you are—that's the music that you're playing. So if you can learn how to create the arrangement of the music that you're playing, and pay attention to the external instrument, that's when you become a virtuoso.
Wow, I love the comparison between your voice and an instrument, because it really, to me, it makes a lot of sense. I can see that whole tuning and being pleasant to the ear. And even jazz sometimes is appealing to a certain audience. So I like that analogy, because it can be… your voice needs to fit the situation, it also needs to be kind of true to who you are. Are there things that we do with our voice that really work against us? That send the wrong message?
We could do it pretty easily. There's two in particular that in a business setting, and we're talking specifically about leadership and credibility, that are credibility killers. One is vocal fry. Now, if you don't know what vocal fry is, you can think about the Kardashians. So it basically makes you sound uninterested. And you actually will hear a lot of this in advertising when they're advertising to millennials and younger. Generally, when they're advertising to Gen X and older, you won't hear near as much vocal fry as you would, because it's more typical to hear in the younger generations, and they don't react to it as much as older generations do. So I do think we'll see this changing, but it's at the end of the sentences and it gets dropped down really low. And in the research that's been done—Gonzaga University did a huge study on this—regardless of who was evaluating the interviewees, anyone who was being interviewed that used vocal fry in their voice across the board categorically—age, race, gender didn't matter—they were rated as less credible and less desirable, less trustworthy to take a job. So it's a huge thing in career development: don't have vocal fry in your voice. That's a really big one.
And the other one that is similar—same thing, but different—is up talking the end of your sentences. And up talking the end of your sentences kind of makes you sound not credible, and then people think you don't know what you're doing, because your sentences sound like a question. A lot of times you can't hear it when you're doing it yourself, so you have to have other people listen to you. This happens a lot in networking situations when somebody is introducing themselves and they feel uncertain on the inside and that gets reflected to the outside. So a good thing to take note of.
Awesome. So as we're wrapping this up, I really want to encourage people to check out Twin Flames Studios—lots of S's in there for me to practice. But I really want to encourage people to check out all the wonderful information you've got to learn more about this subject, because I think being able to communicate and communicate with confidence is such an important first step for everyone and especially for business owners.
It sure is. We actually have a vocal leadership workout. If anyone is interested. And we don't have a landing page for it, but if you connect with me on LinkedIn, or through our website. We're happy to send you a copy.
Awesome. Well, we will make sure that we include all those links. Thank you so much for being a part of the show.
Thank you, Lorraine. This is wonderful. I appreciate you.
If you've enjoyed today's conversation and you'd like to find more resources for your business, be sure to check out the Digital Toolbox at DigitalToolbox.Club. Look for MTFW wherever you listen to podcasts. This is another episode of More Than a Few Words. Thanks for listening.
Did you know that the first audiobook was created in 1929? Today, audiobooks are a billion dollar per year industry in the US alone! If you want to discover more about the power of audiobooks, check out my guest appearance on the new episode of the VIP Access Podcast, hosted by Michelle Herschorn.(VIP Access Podcast with Michelle Herschorn, November 2021)
Melanie HerschornHi again. I'm Melanie Herschorn, the digital content creator and marketing strategist and coach for women business owners, and welcome back to another episode of VIP Access. VIP stands for Visibility, Impact, Profit, and this podcast will get you inspired and fired up about content creation and marketing yourself and your brand. Each week you'll get marketing and mindset strategies, actionable tips, and the motivation you need to land more clients, nurture your leads, and position yourself as an expert in your industry. We also go behind the scenes with powerful women in business to discuss strategies, messaging and more. My mission is to empower you to stop spinning your wheels and to make your mark with your marketing. Ready to wow your ideal client and create a community of raving fans? Let's dive into today's episode!
Hi, and welcome back to VIP Access. I'm Melanie Herschorn. Today, my guest is an award-winning and internationally-acclaimed speaker and audiobook publisher and corporate podcast producer and vocal leadership expert. Her name is Tina Dietz, and she has been featured on media outlets from ABC to Huffington Post to Forbes and more. Her first podcast The StartSomething Show was named by Inc. Magazine as one of the top 35 podcasts for entrepreneurs and Tina's company, Twin Flames Studios, amplifies the influence of brands and leaders through high ROI audiobook and podcasting solutions. And you will hear from her mic how great she is with sound. So welcome, Tina. Thanks so much for being here.
Tina DietzThanks, Melody, I appreciate that.
I just, I have a background in radio, so when I hear a good mic, I get really excited. Totally geeking out on that.
We end up being like radio voice nerds and all of that. It's like, “Oh, listen to the sound quality.”
Love it. So okay, I don't even know where to start, because I'm just so excited to have you on today. Because not only are you a podcasting expert, but really audiobooks are so important. And I think that that's something that people who have written a book don't even necessarily think about, you know, in terms of a way to get more ears or eyes on their book, and to amplify their mission and their influence in the world. And so, I would love to know some statistics about audiobooks.
Oh, statistics about audiobooks? Well, it's a funny world. When I first started working with audiobooks, they'd been around since about 1930. This is not a new format.
You mean like book on tape, okay.
Book on tape. Before that, it was book on album, you know. Or I'll date myself and talk about, you know, when I was a little kid, we had those book and album combinations where it was, “When Tinker Bell rings her little bell, it's time to turn the page.” Or we used to get books on tape out of the library, which you can still do. Mostly they're CDs sometimes have these all in one little players, which are really interesting and cool.
A lot of people don't know that the military uses a lot of those books. A lot of audiobooks are consumed by our servicemen and women overseas. It's one of the ways that they stay in touch and they don't have to use the internet. So audiobooks reach into some really remote places in the world.
But what really happened, oh, let's go back about 10 years ago, audiobooks became truly digital. Audible, which is the largest audiobook distributor in the world–they handle about 60% of the market share worldwide–combined themselves with Amazon. For whatever you think about Amazon or your opinions about Amazon as a global company, one way or another, what they have done is made things more accessible for everyday people. And when everything went digital, audiobooks went digital, the cost of production for audiobooks dropped about 50%. That has continued to be the case.
So when, back in 2009 or so and earlier, to get an audiobook produced you were talking about at least $10,000 minimum. Now an audiobook can still cost that much, if you get a lot of bells and whistles: you've got a full cast, you're recording in a New York studio, you got Tinkerbell in there full costume makeup, ringing bells. But that is generally not the case. Now you can get your audiobook fully produced by a company like ours, or another high quality studio, generally for $3,000-$5,000. And that's full production, author-narration, professional-narration, really high quality work.
It can be done remotely without our having to go into a studio. And audiobooks, you mentioned statistics, audiobooks outsell eBooks about three to one. And they're a $1 billion plus industry just in the US alone. And there are new markets opening up overseas every single day with audiobooks, so it is a growing market. It's been double digit growth year on year for the last eight years. So it is crazy pants what is happening with audiobooks and it's just a really reliable, familiar way too to get books into more ears and reach more hearts with your message. And that's what we're out to do.
I love all of that. So I want to just break it down a little bit more. Let's say somebody wrote a book a couple years ago, they launched it, it didn't do great, because they didn't have the marketing in place. And now they're starting to work on the marketing, because I always say you wrote the book, it's still published, so let's keep going and try to get some excitement about it.
Totally with you on that.
Can you also couple that with an audiobook and make that an exciting launch?
Why yes, Melanie, you can. I'll go into my commercial voice there. Yeah, no, it's a great application for an audiobook. We call it a “Second Chance Launch,” and it is something that happens frequently. As you know, in the book world, particularly with first books and authors, you get very excited. It's almost like having a child. You do all this stuff to get the book ready and to get it out there, and then by the time you get it out, you're exhausted.
Right when you need to be at your best is when you want to be taking a break. The marketing falls down or the budget isn't there, or just the persistence and the will isn't there to keep going with that particular book, because it's taken everything you've got as an author just to get the book out on the market. Launching an audiobook six months, a year longer, two years, three years down the road, is a way to revitalize that title and get it back out there again. Some folks also do a second edition with their audiobook, but more than likely, if the material really is evergreen, like many of our authors it is, then just getting the audiobook out there is enough to revitalize and get things going again.
What if you hate the sound of your own voice?
Ah, yeah, I hear that a lot. Even in a room full of speakers, if I'm on a stage and I survey a room, and I say, “Who here doesn't like the sound of their own voice?” about half the room, even in a room full of speakers and podcasters will still raise their hand. And if it's a roomful of executives or entrepreneurs, more in the general space, about 80% of people will raise their hand to say they don't like their voice. A very common thing. It's a very human thing. You have to get used to it.
There's two pathways through that. One is to basically suck it up and get used to it. Seriously, that, that's kind of the way it works. And to rely on professionals like myself, like my team, who are going to be honest with you and say, “Really, your voice is going to be fine for this book. And this is how we're going to work with you on it.” Or we'll be honest with you and say, “You know what, your voice is great for a podcast. It's great for a keynote. But it's going to be challenging to listen to you for four or five, six hours straight. And here's why.” That really just depends on the voice. But a lot of times, it's for reasons you don't expect. People have unique voices. I have this wonderful colleague who is totally Jersey–totally New Jersey–she has the most amazing, gorgeous New Jersey accent. I've been trying to talk her into doing her audiobook. She's got a great podcast, and she's like, “No, no, no, I have to have a professional do it.” I said, “Don't you dare,” because her voice is part of her brand.
Exactly what I was gonna say. It's part of her brand. And so she's taking people away from her brand, if she doesn't own that. That's part of who she is.
That's part of her voice. And her articulation is great. She's fun to listen to. Her voice is musical. All the things that are engaging about a voice. She has her accent, which she worries about, is not going to be a problem. She's very engaging to listen to.
Now, this is something even though I've worked in radio, I've been trained how to have a radio voice so to speak. I worked in classical music, which is like, “And now we are going to play Bach” and like, you really have to be like “The Sonata in B Minor played by…
The Philharmonic Orchestra. We hope you enjoy it.
Yes, exactly! Exactly. And then the people are dozing off while listening, which is fine. And news, which is also a different way to talk. But when people are gonna stand there and talk for four hours, five hours, how do they keep up momentum?
Well, you don't talk for four or five hours. That's really the key. Even professional narrators don't tend to record for longer than two hours at a shot. It is vocal fatigue across the board. Even for our really, really experienced speakers, our speakers always come in and say, “Oh, no, I do 20, you know, gigs a week.” And you know, we work with great people who do amazing things out in the world, and then they get into the audiobook process, and afterwards are like, “Oh, that was different.” Not that it was bad, it gave them a whole new skill set, because we record our authors remotely from wherever they are in the world and we fully direct them through the entire process.
Just as if you were to go into a New York studio and you were to have a director right there live in your ear, we are live in the ears of our authors, usually from their home office. So we're catching their mistakes, we're making sure that their energy is good, making sure that they're getting across the message and the intention that they want to get.
When you're reading and delivering material at the same time, it's different than a rehearsed keynote, or even in the format where we are now, which is really casual. I'm not as worried about my articulation. I'm not delivering a particular set script. You know, when you're going through an audiobook, it's a certain type of breathing. It's much slower than most people are used to speaking at and it's usually a little bit more articulated. There's a couple of things that come into play and that's what we help with. But we work with authors, you know, if their energy level can't support speaking for two hours and getting a great performance, then we do it for one hour. We have another author, we're working on her second audiobook, Jennifer Brown, she's an amazing DEI consultant. She has opera training, and tons of vocal training, and she has vocal stamina like crazy, so she can go for three or four hours. But she is an outlier, so it works across the board.
I mean, I can only imagine how exhausting that would be. You're not just talking, you're “on.” I'm one of those people that after a full day of work, I need to just shut down and have complete silence. Because when you're “on,” it just takes so much out of you. Do you find that people falter in the middle? And you're just like, “Okay, we'll come back to this tomorrow.”
It depends on the day that they're having. We do a lot of prep work with folks. We have a whole document we deliver to help people understand the mindset, to prepare to do their audiobook, and that can move into the rest of their lives as well. You know, when any of us who have been in business for a while, as you're developing your leadership, you know, you have to maintain your energy management and your energy hygiene, I'll even call it. And that has to do with you know, introversion/extroversion. Do you need to be around people? Do you need to shut down, as you mentioned? I need to go out tonight and go to an open mic comedy night to recharge myself. I'm an extrovert. That's going to charge me up. That would be a nightmare for you, probably at the end of a long workday, if you needed to recharge your energy after so many things coming at you.
Not necessarily. I'm one of those people, I could just have like five minutes, put on more makeup, and go out and feel totally returned.
We'll have to keep that in mind when we meet in person.
Oh, I can't wait for that!
But the point is that, you know, you have to manage your energy. And that's a big part of what our directors and what we listen for, watch for, and talk with our authors about because it's a very personal journey.
For me, I, even though I've worked in radio, as I said, I am a visual learner. I think it's two-thirds of the population are visual learners. But audiobooks, they don't really go against that, I find. Like I can listen to a book on a long drive and take it in, take all of it in. And so do you find that there's ever any pushback about people who are like, “Well, I'm a visual learner, so I don't need an audiobook?”
It's an interesting world, because we're so wired for storytelling. It comes into a different part of the brain entirely, so the best thing about an audiobook is the intimacy that it creates between the narrator and the listener. And there's a neurological connection, even when you're in the car. Actually, 80% of audiobooks are listened to through earbuds. That's what the research says.
You know, we're not in our cars quite as much as we used to be on long commutes, especially in the last two years. But at the same time, even if you are listening through, you know, your car speakers, or your earbuds, which are going to be the two most common areas, there's a relationship that forms you know? You almost find yourself or maybe you do find yourself, responding in the case of fiction, a character, just like you're watching TV, and you want to say, “Don't open the door!” Or if you're listening to a book on personal development or leadership development, you may find yourself pausing just to have a conversation with yourself about, “Do I really believe that? I think they are full of crap. I don't know about that.” Or, “Oh, I never thought of that!” And you kind of have to process through it. Because it is, to one extent or another, a conversation, just based on the way that we're wired neurologically. So it is an intimate experience. And that's why the quality of narration is so very important. That is what sells audiobooks. It's the quality of narration.
Okay, I love that we got to that point because it is true. It's like, if you have grainy video or pretty terrible photos that's not going to excite your audience and grow your audience, but you need to have quality sound. And what people might not realize is you can hear lights. You can hear a dog barking in the distance, and that ambient sound can throw off so much other than just the sound of your own voice reading your book. So how do you account for that in somebody's house, if they don't have their own studio?
Well, I’ll tell you a little secret: about 85% of our authors record from a walk-in closet. And this is a very common thing, even in the professional narration world. It's very cozy. The atmosphere of a walk-in closet with the clothing around you very specifically buffers the sound. And usually there's a spot where you can set up a little portable desk, or a table and a chair and your microphone and record your audiobook with a director in your ear taking care of the recording for you. And that's where a lot of voice acting happens is in those small spaces. You absolutely can create things on your desk, as well. The other thing we recommend a lot that's a really easy setup for people is to take a plastic storage box, the kind that you would put a bunch of, you know, Christmas decorations and things like that. The Rubbermaid, Sterilite kind of containers, you'd get.
A giant Tupperware
A giant Tupperware container and then you take a piece of foam that you would put on top of a bed. Bed topper. Get it at Walmart or Target for $20, put it on the inside, stand it on end, and toss your microphone in it, and then you've basically got a little portable sound booth. I actually had one of those when I was living in Costa Rica that I did some professional voice acting from and the sound quality–it was great.
That's amazing. Yeah, and you got to live in Costa Rica, which is even more amazing.
It's a whole other story.
That's great. Okay, so I love how you're bringing this to more people. You know, where I sit as somebody who's currently working on writing a book and I work with authors, sometimes we feel like audiobooks are a little bit out of reach. You figure out whether you're going to be self-publishing, working with a hybrid publisher, or going the traditional publishing route, and then you're so focused on the launch, and “Am I going to be an Amazon bestseller? I don't know” and all that stuff. And then you're like, “Okay, well, now nobody knows about it. So I need to do the marketing. But wouldn't it be great if people could listen in their AirPods to me?” It almost feels like it's, it's just high up on this pedestal that we can't reach. So I love that you're bringing it to more people. So what you're saying is, pretty much everybody should do this.
I think if it's something that you can carve out, the budget for and the time for in the great scheme of things and also survey your audience. Do they listen to audiobooks? A lot of our authors come to us because they launched their book and the number one question they got was, “When are you doing the audiobook?” I hear this over and over again. We have lots of conversations with authors every single week, and it's either, “My publisher said I needed one,” “I have to have one because I love audiobooks,” or “I've launched my book and everyone's asking me for the audiobook. How quickly can we get it done?” So those are the things that we hear on a daily basis from authors, which is good news for everybody.
That's great. So how long does it take from start to finish? Because I've heard there are delays and it can be like a really long time before Audible says, “Okay, here you go.”
Audible, particularly on the self-publishing side of Audible, there can be glitches. There can be some issues. We produce a very pristine level. We do not get rejected by Audible. We [have] t's crossed, i's dotted. But there's very, very specific technical specs that your audio files have to meet for Audible. It is not like podcasting. It is not like doing any other kind of audio. The audio that I'm recording right now for this podcast would definitely not meet Audible standards. There would be background noise, there would be a noise floor issue, all kinds of stuff. And even the, the amount of space at the beginning and the end of the file and what's included–so many technical details. But we do this every day. We meet all those technical standards, so our books go through in generally about 10-15 business days through their system, which is average. It can take up to 30 business days to make it through Audible's system, if there's no mistakes in your files. So what happens is if there are mistakes in your files it gets bounced back to you. They'll tell you what the issues are, you have to fix it, and then you got to start back at the beginning of the queue again. And that's usually where the problems come into play because somebody has worked with someone that tried to do it themselves, or they worked with someone who isn't highly experienced. The author can't tell. They can't test it. They don't have the, the technical skills to do that, and then it becomes a problem. That's where people run into the most issues. And they come to us and say, “Can you fix these files?”
“Help us!” I get that. Now, is there ever a book that doesn't make sense to become an audiobook?
There's some that do better than others. Books that tend to be at least 35,000 words tend to do better in audio. Most audio platforms like Audible, our audiobooks are sold on a membership basis. So longer books have a higher perceived value, because you get a credit every month and you can buy any audiobook. Are you going to look for an audio book that's eight hours long, or two hours long? So there becomes a perceived value issue.
Okay.
Also, audiobook pricing is different than other book pricing. Audiobooks are priced on length, which irritates a lot of authors, and I completely understand that it is an issue in the industry. Having a book that's a little bit longer–30-35,000 words, at least–gets your pricing up into a range that you're going to be much happier with. That's one issue. Another one is books that are highly technical, highly visual. They're going to need an audio edit to make an audio version of and when we evaluate books, we go over that if there tends to be more of a technical guide.
Cookbooks and poetry–it really just depends on the market that you're in. We don't work with fiction. We are a nonfiction house, but we do often get people asking us for poetry. And we don't tend to work with those because you're better off working and getting that done kind of on your own in terms of price points, and things like that, because those poetry books are shorter books. And I almost think that you're better off releasing those as an album, like almost as music, so that you can control the pricing more, rather than as an audiobook. And that's not something a lot of people think of. Go get it audio designed and really make that book juicy and worth your while to do if you're working with poetry. But technical guides, cookbooks are another one that require some changes if you're going to do an audio version. And that's more from an accessibility standpoint. Most cookbooks are not going to be listened to as a traditional audiobook, but if you're looking to reach an audience of say, folks who have visual impairment, then that's another animal. So accessibility is a whole other part of the audio industry.
There is so much that we have unpacked today. And I feel like we just scratched the surface, truly.
It’s true.
But I love that when I asked you about statistics, you rattled off a number of them. So I really appreciate that. Because so often we hear about things and it's like, “Oh, is this the next shiny object that I need to go after?” And, you know, as entrepreneurs, as authors, it's often like, “Well, what if I don't get it? If I don't do this, as I going to miss out?” And so this really sounds like something that is worth investing in because of just the sheer number of people that you can reach in a way that is going to help them better because maybe they really want to read your book, but they just don't have time to sit and read their Kindle app, or they just don't have time to sit and leaf through the pages.
Now well, and the one beautiful thing I'll tell you is that a lot of times what happens with audiobooks, particularly in nonfiction, people get a nice case of “mightas-well-itis.” They'll get the audiobook to listen to so they can make it through the material and then they'll buy the paperback, so that they can go back and make notes and the salient points. We've had it happen all the time. So, many times if you are selling your audiobook and then giving away a Kindle version that can be annotated for free, it's nice to bundle those together. Or you'll see an uptick in your paperback or hardcover sales when you release your audiobook because people are buying both versions. There's all kinds of things on the marketing side of things we don't have time to get into today. But maybe another time. There's there's lots of cool stuff.
I love it. Alright, so how can people find out more about you and Twin Flames Studios?
But a worthwhile one. Well, Tina, thank you so much for being here today.
No, thank you, Melanie. This is great. I really appreciate it!
You've written a book. Now what? If you're ready to implement a simple content marketing strategy to create buzz around your book and your brand, schedule your free Sparkles and Strategy Call with me, Melanie Herschorn. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of VIP Access. We can't let the fun end here. To find out how engaging your content is, take the content quiz at MyContentQuiz.com. Plus, you're invited to join our private Facebook group at VIPDigital.live/community where you'll get live trainings and other great tips all about digital marketing. And if you've enjoyed listening to this podcast, head over to iTunes and leave me a rating and review. This tells iTunes that you found the show helpful and they'll share it with more women business owners just like you. Thank you so much for listening.
Not sure if an audiobook is the right investment for you and your brand? Listen to my guest appearance on The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson and learn more!
Tina talks to Becky Robinson about the benefits and process of investing in an audiobook.
In this episode:
If Tina’s noticed a trend of people buying audiobooks vs. other formats
Reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook
Why an author might choose to narrate their own book (author narrated vs. professionally narrated)
The best time for an author to release their audiobook
What the process looks like and the average length of an audiobook
The range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook
—
Listen to the podcast here:
Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Tina Dietz—CEO and co-founder of Twin Flames Studios, award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and influence marketing expert.
ABOUT TINA
Becky: I am so thrilled today to be interviewing Tina Dietz. Tina is a friend I made, actually, as a result of this podcast. A previous guest, Jenn T. Grace, introduced us, and I’m so glad she did, because I’ve already learned so much from you, Tina. So before we dive in, I hope you’ll take a moment and tell our listeners about your work in the world.
Tina: Well, my company Twin Flames Studios focuses on getting more great voices out to the world. So really the mission behind the company is that audiobooks and podcasts are some of the lowest hanging fruit for people to start to change their lives. So particularly with audiobooks, and certainly with podcasts, they tend to be low cost or free. They’re available in multiple countries, a lot of them can be in multiple languages, and their stories are what keep us all connected as human beings. So the more that we can help leaders, subject matter experts, and people who have lived extraordinary lives in the nonfiction space, which is our specialty, tell their stories and get it out to the world, the more we can make a difference and leave our own legacy, as well as help with the legacies of all these authors that we work with. So what we’re talking about today is mostly our audiobook division, which is strictly nonfiction audiobooks. And we do full, done-for-you production, publishing, and distribution, both for professional narration as well as author narration, which is something we’re known for.
HAVE YOU NOTICED A TREND OF PEOPLE BUYING AUDIOBOOKS VS. OTHER FORMATS?
Becky: Tina, that’s really intriguing and I look forward to hearing more about that author voice narration. But let’s talk for a moment, first, about audiobooks as a genre. I’m curious to see what you’ve noticed about the trend of people buying audiobooks rather than other formats.
Tina: It’s been an interesting art because audiobooks are certainly not new. The first audiobook was produced during the Great Depression, and I believe it was a Christmas story. They’ve always been around. Those of us who are a little bit older will remember books on tape and getting them out at the library, things like that. But up until the shift in the market about six, eight years ago, where audiobooks became digital, the production of audiobooks was generally relegated to traditional publishing. It was very expensive to do and very expensive to distribute, because everything was in a hardcopy, and first on tape, well, first an album, then on tape, and God forbid, on 8-track, and then ultimately on CDs. So when everything went digital, and Amazon and Audible became the same company, when voice acting and narrators became available more online, we had the rise of the gig economy, all of these things kind of created a perfect storm for the rise and the renaissance of the audiobook. So audiobooks have risen in sales year upon year, in double digits for the last eight years. And some of those years, it’s been a 20% to even 25% rise in the sales of audiobooks. So it’s a billion dollar industry in the US alone, and the accessibility of it is largely what makes them so so so popular.
WHAT ARE SOME REASONS AN AUTHOR WOULD CONSIDER INVESTING IN AN AUDIOBOOK?
Becky: Well, as the wife of a man who only consumes books via audio, I know that there are many people who really are drawn in a big way to that ease of being able to listen while you drive, or listen while you get something else done. And I think in a way, you already answered this question, Tina, but I’m gonna ask it anyway. What are some reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook?
Tina: Well, you definitely have to look at what your purpose is, and I’m really glad you asked this question. So on the nonfiction side of the equation—fiction is going to have a different answer, and I can touch on it if you’d like—but on the nonfiction side of things, an author wants to look at doing an audiobook to access a wider audience, first of all. A lot of executives, C-suite folks, people who are decision makers or at high levels in their career, often listen to audio, or listen to audio and buy a copy of the book so that they can switch formats because they can multitask, and also because audiobooks you can listen to at faster speeds. So I know lots of people, including myself, who might put an audiobook up to one and a half time speed, in order to be able to consume the information and get what they need, and then maybe have a hard copy of the book to reference back or make notes in as they go, using it as a learning tool. And they use it to keep your brain juicy as you go. So having an audiobook does open up those markets. An audiobook is also a marketing tool and it is an evergreen marketing tool, just like your book is. So using snippets of your book, in audiograms, in book trailers, in different parts of your material, or even potentially as material to create a course or modules in the backend membership site that you might have, you can use your audiobook in all of these different ways as an asset, not just distributed on Audible.
WHY MIGHT AN AUTHOR CHOOSE TO NARRATE THEIR OWN BOOK?
Becky: So Tina, this might be a good time to talk about this idea of an author narrated audiobook. Why might an author choose to narrate their own book?
Tina: Well, speaking as an entrepreneur myself, I would say that we all have egos, so that’s really the first truth. You have to know that it feels, if you’ve gone through all of the process of writing a book that is part of your soul on paper, and it is in your voice and of course, you want to have the experience. And I hear this all the time, “I’m the only person that could narrate this book.” Now, that’s not actually true, but an author may actually feel very strongly about that. We should probably also, if we have time, talk about why an author wouldn’t narrate their own book, because most of our authors come to us assuming that they are going to narrate their own book. But for those who do want to have that, if you are going after speaking gigs, if you want to have your voice known in a particular industry, or if your voice is already highly associated with your work, you have a popular podcast, you’re a TED speaker, so on and so forth, there may be some congruency to having your voice on the book. At least in part, not every author narrates their entire audio book, sometimes we do what I lovingly call a Tony Robbins sandwich, which is a hybrid version of the book where the author introduces the material, does the introduction or the first chapter, and then kind of hands it off to a professional narrator who shares similar vocal qualities as the author, and certainly has similar energy as the author, and then the author comes back at the end of the book to wrap things up. Sometimes there’s a happy middle ground between the two, given how busy most of our authors are.
WHAT ARE OTHER REASONS AN AUTHOR MAY NOT CHOOSE TO NARRATE THEIR OWN AUDIOBOOK?
Becky: Well, that’s an amazing idea. And so in addition to being maybe too busy to narrate your own audiobook, Tina, what are some other reasons an author may not choose to narrate their own audiobook?
Tina: Well, not every expert has, first of all, a great voice. Not every expert has the desire to do it. That has a lot to do with it, because it feels like a slog behind the microphone. Because narrating an audiobook is no joke. It takes time. It takes discipline. We fully produce and direct our authors through the process. We remote into their home offices, make sure that we get great sound quality, all kinds of great stuff to support them. But ultimately, if you aren’t feeling it, you’re not going to have a good audiobook. And so not everybody is a verbal communicator. They might be really strong in writing, but not really enjoy a lot of speaking, particularly in long form narration like an audiobook requires. So there’s a really important cocktail of desire, skill, experience, and time that go into whether we determine it’s a best path forward for an author to have their own voice on the book, versus a professional narrator on the book. And not for nothing, but some authors may actually have either physical or other issues happening, that it’s not a good fit for them, depending on what they have going on in their lives or their abilities.
WHEN IS THE BEST TIME FOR AN AUTHOR TO RELEASE THEIR AUDIOBOOK?
Becky: That’s really helpful. So when do you find is the best time for an author to release their audiobook?
Tina: We tend to have authors come to us in one of two areas, or one or two timeframes, I should say. One is that they’re getting ready to launch a new book. And if it’s an author narrated book and they’re planning on doing preorders for their book, there are some technical caveats to when you can actually get your audiobook launched, particularly on Audible. Audible is the 500 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to audiobook distribution. They do own about 60% of the market share in audiobook sales. So not being on Audible is going to be a problem for you if you’re not there. So they have some rules about when you can get your audiobook out. But generally we can get pretty close, with an author narrated audiobook, to your launch date. And that’s kind of one scenario, you’re launching a new book and you end up putting the audiobook out, either at the same time as the other versions of it, or it’s a staggered launch anytime generally, within the first six months of the launch, there’s a lot of advantages to doing it that way, because it extends the life of the launch and you can get the same audience excited about a new format, or reach people that you haven’t reached before. So it’s a nice marketing technique to stagger your audiobook launch after the hardcover or ebook versions of the book that might come out first.
The other version of audiobook launches comes into play when we have a book that could use a second life. Many authors come to us and they say, “I wish I could relaunch my book, knowing what I know now.” They may have had a difficult relationship with their original publisher, or they didn’t have the chops that they have now in marketing. So an audiobook is a way to give your book a second chance, and basically have a second launch, and that’s really valuable as well. Some folks even want to do a second edition of their book or add new material to it, so that comes into play as well.
Becky: That’s all really great advice and aligns to what I’ve coached authors to do. So I’m glad that we’re on the same page. It’s encouraging to hear.
WHAT DOES THE PROCESS LOOK LIKE?
Becky: Tina, I’d love for you to explain to our listeners about the steps that you take, as you coach authors through this process. Obviously, you mentioned that it’s done for you. So you’re creating the audiobook for and with them. Tell me about those steps and about the timelines, so that if our listeners are considering investing in an audiobook, they know what to expect.
Tina: Yeah, let me talk about timelines first. So generally, we’re looking at about 90 days in either case, whether it’s author narrated, or professionally narrated. Some of this highly depends on the availability of the author, certainly in the case of the author narrated, but also in the case of professionally narrated, because there are key times that the author is needed to make choices. So for example, in the professionally narrated case, we have an audition process that is very robust, and we get about 150 auditions, per book, on average. We curate all of those auditions, first for sound and goodness of fit, and also the energy. Can we actually believe that this narrator is delivering this material? All of that gets done on the first round.
The second round is professional vetting. Can they meet the timeline? Can they meet the budget? How are they to work with? So we do all of that, before we present our authors with a list. Generally, we have about eight to twelve choices of our top picks, with their auditions in our notes on why we think they’re great. But we need the author to have a little time to listen through those things, and make a choice. So depending on how busy the author is, we can throw timelines off based on how much time they take, or God forbid, if they decide to make decisions by committee, which could happen. But the author is one of the couple of key things that we do that are important, because the author has creative choices, we’re not taking over the process like a traditional publisher would. We also don’t take any rights or royalties. So we keep our authors involved in the creative process, one way or another.
So in the case of professional narration, once we have a narrator selected, and we’ve produced kind of the first 15 minutes or so with the book, and everybody’s on board with the tone and the pacing, the characterization that the narrator is using, the process goes quite quickly. And we, of course, handle all of this, not just the narration and the direction, but the proofing, the editing, the mastering, and after the author has had a chance to sign off on everything and it’s all good to go, it goes into a quality control process. Quality control on Audible can take up to 30 business days, so that’s all part of that 90 day period that I’m talking about.
Similarly, on the author narrated side of things, I mentioned before we do sound checks, we do all of that. And then it’s a matter of scheduling the recording times, and you cannot bang out an audio book in a day. Most professional narrators don’t record for longer than two to three hours a day. So a non professional—like even a professional speaker—very, very rarely do we run into authors who can narrate for longer than two hours at a time. More likely it’s 90 minutes without losing gas, without their energy dropping into their feet, and that’s okay. But you do have to account for that in the schedule.
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF AN AUDIOBOOK?
Becky: What would be the average length of an audiobook, in this nonfiction kind of thought leadership experts space?
Tina: A lot of our books are right around the 30,000 to 50,000 word mark. When you get into really short books, 20,000 words or less, they don’t tend to do as well in sales for audiobooks. There are some exceptions, of course, simply because audiobooks are generally sold on a membership basis. So when you are an audiobook member of Audible, and you have a credit that you can use on an audiobook that is an hour and a half or two hours long, versus eight or 10 hours long, the perceived value is higher on the longer book. Now, that’s not to say that you shouldn’t do an audiobook version of a shorter book, but we might tweak the distribution strategy, and talk with you further about how that audio is going to be used to the best advantage.
Becky: Wow, I am learning so much today! I am sure our listeners are as well.
WHAT’S THE RANGE OF INVESTMENT THAT AN AUTHOR SHOULD EXPECT IF THEY WANT TO CREATE AN AUDIOBOOK?
Becky: So my final question as it relates to audiobooks, Tina, is what’s the range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook with the type of support that your organization provides?
Tina: Sure, absolutely. I think that for most books, on average, we look at somewhere in the $3,000 to $5,000 range. Sometimes less for shorter books. Sometimes more if somebody wants multiple narrators and they want music added. We’ve had a few specialty books that we’ve done that have even incorporated the audio from video clips and things like that, that have happened from major events, and whatnot. The average kind of cost of an audiobook with everything included, including the distribution, is definitely going to be in that three to five range.
Becky: I appreciate that transparency, because I think it really sets people up to consider whether this is an investment that they’re prepared to make.
ACTION STEPS
Becky: So, Tina, our listeners are used to us always giving them action steps at the end of every podcast, because this is the book marketing action podcast. I know you have a couple of action steps that you’d like people to take today.
Tina: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Read your book out loud. The first thing is, have you ever read your book out loud? Take a couple of chapters of your book and just try reading it out loud. See how it feels. See how you like the material. Most of our authors, when they read their book out loud, which we have them do before they step into any kind of recording situation, they have a series of reactions to their own work. We all do. You also have a series of reactions to the sound of your own voice, and that’s okay too. But try it on, try it out and see what that’s like for you. If you’re in the process of writing a book, definitely read the book out loud before you finalize your editing, you will find all kinds of things there to make the book more narrative, maybe to shorten up sentences a little bit. And you’ll even catch errors that you didn’t catch when you were just doing it visually. So that’s really the first thing go read your book out loud.
Download the step-by-step guide. The second thing is, is that a lot of the things that I talked about today, we’ve put into a guide. And we also have frequently asked questions and all kinds of good information, best practices, and a full kind of step-by-step guide on how to get your audiobook done. And you can find that at Launchyouraudiobook.com.
RESOURCES
Learn more about Tina Dietz’s company, Twin Flames Studios, here.
If you want to learn more about how successful authors leverage their books, download Tina’s free guide here.
If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.
Yes, thank you for joining us.So please tell us a story of how Twin Flames Studios came to be.
Well, Twin Flames Studios is a high ROI Influence and Marketing company where we use audio to amplify the voices and messages of trusted leaders and companies all over the world. It's really our mission to help these people help these organizations get their word out to a larger audience in the very intimate form of audio, whether that is nonfiction audiobook publishing, or that is podcasting strategically for your business.
And it's important that we note that in these times of great change, these powerful voices are needed now more than ever.
My background, and my story, is a little bit more like the twisty journey of a lot of entrepreneurs.I grew up as an entrepreneur—my parents’ business—the super sexy world of wood burning stoves and fireplaces.
Wow.
Yeah, very exciting. But I never wanted to have my own business because I didn't want to be tied down to a brick and mortar like my parents were. And I'm an only child, so that business was my annoying younger sibling when I was growing up.
Right, the baby.
The baby, yeah.
So, I became a therapist, and I tried to be conventional. And that didn't work out so well for me—
Okay—
As many entrepreneurs—
The entrepreneurial spirit was still—
That’s right, within the blood.
Yes.
So, after working in higher education, starting a nonprofit, and also building a family—another family business with my father, the Nayada Institute of Massage—I stepped off into a full-time business coaching practice. And through the jigs and the reels over the years grew that practice.
It was wonderful, had young children at the time, we lived a mobile lifestyle, we sold our stuff moved to Costa Rica. And at one point because I was… had my own, like personal expression—I grew up a little bit of a theater kid—drama kid—and was looking for some outlets, creative outlets—I became a voice actor as a paid hobby. And through that process, and learning the audiobook industry as a narrator—I was exploring that—I had this epiphany “Well, wait a minute, I'm coaching all these people from all over the world who owned businesses—20 different industries, eight different countries—why aren't these folks who are publishing their own books doing bestseller campaigns? Why aren't they doing audiobooks?”
And it was that curiosity that led me down the rabbit hole first for audiobooks—I already had my own podcast at the time—had fallen in love with that world. And that is what led to developing this niche in podcasting and audiobooks for business owners, thought leaders and companies.
And so what would you say the difference is versus something that's on paper, versus really hearing a tone? What does that do for an audience to really hear a voice?
Well, you know, a couple of years ago, I had the pleasure and privilege of being the lead interviewer on a documentary about podcasting called The Messengers, you can find it I think it's on Amazon Prime. And that was developed by Chris Krimitsos and his team at the Podfest Multimedia Expo. And that was, that organization was younger at the time and wanted to really explore what is this industry of podcasting from an independent podcaster’s point of view, rather than monopoly, or NPR or the, you know, the big professional gigs.
So, I interviewed about 40, different podcasters from all different walks of life, different countries, different places, most of them didn't know each other. And the word that came up in every single interview independently was the word intimacy. Podcasting being this intimate format, you know, directly into your ears—becoming a voice in somebody's head, it's such a privilege. And that and then also the ability to do active storytelling when we're so wired to tell stories as human beings. So that's, you know, the audio format has a lot of advantages in that way. And it's also the most accessible form of media, you know, you can listen—as I'm assuming some people are right now listening to this podcast—when you can't read, you can listen when you can't watch. So, you can take it anywhere.
And as a coaching also involved in telling… teaching people how to speak as well as I'm sure some people aren't necessarily natural storytellers. Is that something you sometimes have to teach certain clients as well?
Yeah, actually, the body of work that I've been developing over time and will continue to do so is around what I call Vocal Leadership. And that's really about the instrument that your external voice is and learning how to tune that and play it beautifully to another level. And also, the internal voices that we have, which is really… if the external voice is the instrument, then the internal voice is the music, the sheet music that we're playing.
So those two things really need to be congruent in order to have a presence, and in order to move people the way we want to move them through stories. And then, of course, there's also the actual storytelling, and microphone techniques, and all of that good stuff as well.
The little details.
Yeah, exactly.So, our hosts… One of the things we do as a company as we get our podcast hosts together into a mastermind about quarterly, to connect them with each other, and also to provide additional support and training.
Okay
And that's, in addition to meeting with them one-on-one to help them with the strategy, you know, as their podcast is, you know, being aired.
Okay, and so that kind of goes to my next question—you mentioned Voice Leadership, and then how you can kind of take an extra step to really connect with the audience. So then, what does being a conscious business leader mean to you?
I think that the word conscious has… has not become overplayed, but it's important to take a step back and look at “Well, what does that really mean?” I'm so glad you asked the question.
And being conscious in your business means taking not just your business into account, it's taking the impact that you're making, or that you can make into account. And that has to do not just with the people that you serve, but it also has to do with how your business is set up. How the impact… How it impacts the people that work inside the company? Is it a win for them? Is it a good culture? Is it healthy? Is it helping people develop their dreams and goals? And is it good also for the people who are, you know, the founders? So, sometimes it's really easy as a C suite or business owner to get on this hamster wheel where you will—you burn out, right?
So, you really need to bring a conscious view… You know, taking these things into consideration. What are the deeper values that you have? And how do those infuse everything that you're doing, everything that you're saying, and the practices that you have? You know, unfortunately, being in the entrepreneur world, speaking world, as long as I have, sometimes you run into people who preach these incredible positive messages from the stage, but then don't treat people well behind the curtain. And being conscious means that you're congruent.
And that also comes back around to the—you know—the vocal leadership, or embodied leadership that we all strive to develop. When you are conscious to make sure that, you know, you're reflecting and having the… your internal conversations match what's coming out of your face.
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that sort of response as far as how it can be one way for the show, but behind the scenes things aren't matching, and how it needs to.So, would you say then, in order for things to be congruent, it has to start with the internal of the founder, of the person who's kind of setting the culture from the beginning?
Yeah, I would completely agree with that. You set the tone. The buck stops here, as the old saying goes.
And I think one of the important things about being a leader is being open enough to seek the coaching on that or to seek the feedback on that, not just from other experts, but also from your team, also from the people around you, from your, from your clients. And it can really take something to hear feedback about that. I remember years ago—I'll go in all the way back to my 20s—I used to get this piece of feedback all the time, because I'm a pretty intense person, you know, I—
I understand, yes.
There's this intensity, and there's this fervor, and there's this passion. And it's… they would say, “Well, could you tone it down a little bit?” Or “Could you soften your edges?” And—oh, my god—that was so offensive, that pissed me off 18 different ways. Because I thought, I just thought they meant that they wanted it, “You go be quiet, put in a box, and smile and do what you're told.” And sometimes that was the case. But what I came to understand later, is that it wasn't really about me, it was about them being intimidated by me. But where I can be kind, and I can be compassionate is learning how to read the room.
Right
And learning how to not, you know, quell or shut off my integrity or my passion, but to manage it in order to express it in a way that people can really receive. Because that's what's important to me, can you receive the message that I'm giving?
Right, right. I guess that’s one of the hardest lessons to learn—different people receive things in different ways.
Right.
I’m just passionate, I just want you to do great, I want us to do great. And just certain ways… it doesn't sit with people like that. And it's learning how to do that extra communication.
Yeah, I remember one of the most important conversations I ever had was in a leadership course really kind of intense one year-long course. And one of my fellow, very successful executive woman, she said—I was getting all ramped up about something—she said, “Why is this so important to you?” I said, “Well, the question is, why isn't it important to you?” And we had a really fascinating discussion about how different people have different capacities to feel. And certain ones of us are very highly sensitive and other people are not. And just, it really opened my eyes, because I really kind of just thought that everybody was like me, and turns out, nope—
No—
Not so much.
I had to make those adjustments. And so, where do you see your business going then in the next three to five years? And I'm sure… We're seeing that people are doing more audio both receiving and giving, than actual reading, and literature, and everything. So where do you see your business going?
Well, it's been a… we've doubled the company four years in a row, time on time. And I don't expect that that will happen forever, certainly—
But it's nice.
It's great so far. And so, we're in a big scaling phase right now. And also, in a position, you know, earlier, in 2020, when the pandemic really was affecting a lot of our colleagues, our clients, our customers, former clients—things like that—I was grateful that we were in a position because we've always been a fully mobile company. And of course, audio is much easier to do remote—that we offered, you know, a lot of—a complement just for free. We went out and said, “What… how can we help?” and offered teleclasses, and consultations, and things like that, to help different companies make use of this online space, make use of audio, both for internal communications, and external communications and marketing. And so, we've had… 2020 was really a banner year for us.
And going into 2021 and beyond we're just looking to really serve more companies to have more intimate relationships with their current clients, with their future clients, with their colleagues, and even for their internal culture, because podcasting in particular, can help with all of that. And then on the author side of things, of course, a lot of people with time that they had, are finishing their books and getting things out on audio—and you know, audiobooks, outsell eBooks three to one across genres. So, it's… It's a beautiful thing to be able to help people get their voice out like that.
Yeah, absolutely, so you're kind of in a nice little sweet spot where it's like you get to of course, help people build their businesses and kind of make some pivots, but of course, it helps your business as well having more clients.
Exactly. You know, it's weird to say it felt like being in the right place at the right time after 20 years. So, worth the wait, worth the wait.
Absolutely. So, you have a few services offered through your website, such as links to your podcast and audiobooks. Tell us about any other services that you might offer, your business offers?
Well, you know, the done-for-you audiobook side of things, one of our… the key things that we're able to do with folks, to the best of my knowledge, we're the only audiobook house—and we do specialize in nonfiction exclusively—who is able to remote into wherever an author is in the world and record their audio book with them, live, full direction, from their home studio or office without them having to go into a studio.
And we can coach them on very easily getting good sound having a high-quality audiobook, and it keeps the cost down. And it's also very comforting to be in your own space while you're do that. So… And we also can do really fun things like insert music, and even other audio clips, and things like that. We're producing a memoir for a family right now on the Holocaust. And there are some fascinating video clips that we're converting to audio that we're going to be inserting in the narrative to help tell the story. So, there's some really cool stuff we do on that side.
Same thing with podcasting. Podcasting is so creative and such a beautiful format to get your message out there. So, whether it is internal podcasting—like we do with enterprise level companies—, external podcasting—that we do with companies and organizations to help get the word out about who they are, what they do and develop their influence—, or the vocal leadership—that I do one-on-one, to help people become more effective in the messages that they have. We're just happy to do all of it—
Yeah, sounds like, yeah, cover a lot of different things that a lot of different people could use especially right now with how things have changed. And so, for anyone who's interested in using any of those services or just even wants to connect with you, where are the best places, and platforms to go to?
You can definitely find me on any social media platform. We have a social media following about 280,000 so we're out there and so you can find me, Tina Dietz. You can also look up Twin Flames Studios, although my name is probably going to get you a better result there on LinkedIn, certainly Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. And you can also just come over to us at TwinFlamesStudios—it's a lot of ss—.com, and come and hang out with us find out some more information, and grab a cup of coffee.
Love it. I love coffee, and I'm sure others do too and would love to share with you.
Me too.
Perfect.
Tina Dietz, thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure learning about you and your company today.
Well, it's been a pleasure being here. Thanks so much, Gabby.
Learn more about the intimacy and power of our voice,
Here are five steps you, as a content generator, can take to find your book inside your blog (and inside your other content, too.)
“We all have a book inside us,” as Dana Micheli, fellow ghostwriter points out. I agree with her, but I also believe that content generators, who are practically manifesting material in their sleep, already have a book outside of them. They just don’t know it…yet.
I consider a content generator a business owner or entrepreneur with an abundant blog, LinkedIn articles for days, keynote addresses and speeches filling up digital file folders, transcripts of every interview they’ve ever done (podcast or otherwise), and copies of any free eBook, presentation, or article they’ve ever written. Whether they’ve generated all this content themselves, or benefited from the support and talent from content writers, copywriters, and/or ghostwriters, the fact is this: They are sitting on a content gold mine, each piece a precious gem, and part of a book just waiting to be produced.
I’m fortunate to work with clients who believe in the power of content and who leverage me to help grow and nurture their mines. Most of them want to produce their first book (or next) but struggle with repurposing their content or searching for the parts and pieces to produce a book—a book that is focused, well-written, showcases their expertise, offers value to their audience, and boosts their business credibility and brand.
Here are five steps a content generator can take to find a book inside their blog (and any of their other content, too).
STEP 1: Identify Topical or Thematic Threads and Trends
List all the places where content exists and visit these locations. Review headings (and subheadings) and scan your content. Note keywords and other recurring ideas that you notice.
Rank your discovered themes/topics and choose the one that speaks to you the most, or aligns with your brand and vision for your business. By going through this process, you’ve found the focus of your book. (You’ll also likely find the most precious gems: the stuff you once wrote that really shined above the rest. Hopefully, those pieces make it into your final work.)
STEP 2: Define Your Reader and Relevance
Now that you’ve identified your topic, pull together copies of each piece of related content. Scan the content and ask yourself: who is my ideal audience? Why is this topic relevant to them? What will they get in reading this information? How is it different and new from what already exists? To take this one step further, envision all this content in its final version (a beautiful book with your name on it) and reflect on what your intended goals / hopes / outcomes are for this book.
STEP 3: Outline Your Table of Contents
Determine where you believe you want your reader to begin and to end. Mark the beginning as A on a piece of paper, and write B on the other side. You’ll fill in the outline of A to B as you read your content again, and this will become your table of contents. Now, this time, you’re not going to just look at content online. Print everything relevant to your topic. Read each piece then set it aside (temporarily). Yes, this may take you some time. You’re mining for the gold here. What are the relevant pieces that really stand out? How do you see these pieces creating an arc of the work? Organize your content based on how to get the reader from point A to B. List the titles of each individual piece in your outline according to how you think they should be ordered.
STEP 4: Investigate Gaps and Goodness
Pinpoint what’s missing and what’s already kicking butt. Read your content from start to finish in the order you outlined. Record what is working (‘goodness’) about what isn’t (‘gaps’). Make a plan for addressing the gaps. This may mean reading it out loud to yourself, taking some time away from the draft, running it through spell check, asking a friend to proofread, etc.
STEP 5: Polish Before Your Publish
Polish your work so it’s crystal clear and shines like a diamond. It’s time to fine-tune things before you publish—no matter what publication route you go. When you’ve finished addressing the gaps, read the full manuscript for clarity, cohesion, and flow. Mark the text where adjustments need to be made. Proofread with an eye for spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., and review for formatting and styling consistency. Solicit the feedback of others you trust to give you a professional and critical eye, and assess if you achieved your goals.
You have now finished mining a book out of your voluminous mountain of content.
If you need some extra support with these five steps, you can snatch up my free gift, Finding Your Book Inside Your Blog: A Content Master’s Scavenger Hunt & Field Guide to Find the Pieces to Produce Your Book.
Alyssa Berthiaume is a native Vermonter, professional (and creative) writer, practicing feminist, recovering middle child, wannabe superhero, and a mom who’s pretty sure she’s “winging it” most of the time. She’s the leading Lady (Boss) and ghostwriter at The Write Place, Right Time – her virtual boutique of writing services for badass coaches, trainers, and speakers, and other badass entrepreneurs who don't “do words” but know they need them. To know more about how she can “do words” for you, visit her website.
Alyssa Berthiaume– Copywriting, Ghostwriting, Lady Boss and Owner of The Write Place, Right Time