You launched the book. You got the badge. You celebrated. Then… nothing happened.
In 2025, “bestseller” doesn’t mean what it used to—and for most authors using their book to build a brand or business, chasing that badge might be the wrong goal entirely.
That’s the conversation we had during this month’s Twin Flames Studios Expert Panel, where I hosted three brilliant voices in modern publishing: Jenn T. Grace, Melanie Herschorn, and Robbie Samuels.
What we uncovered was part myth-busting, part strategy reset—and 100% necessary if you want your book to keep working for you after launch day.
The Bestseller Badge: Still Useful? Or Past its Prime?
Let’s get real: authors still want that badge. It feels good. It looks impressive. But the real question is—what does it actually do?
“It’s a confidence boost, not a marketing plan.” — Melanie Herschorn
Getting the title of “bestselling author” can create credibility, especially with audiences who don’t know how the sausage is made. But as Jenn T. Grace reminded us:
“The average person doesn't know an author. So, when they meet one, and that person is a bestseller, they don’t know how it came to be.” — Jenn T. Grace
There’s no shame in leveraging the title—but it shouldn’t be the only strategy you rely on.
“Bestsellers should be the byproduct of a strategically done launch.” — Robbie Samuels
What Authors Should Focus on Instead
If you’re a coach, consultant, or expert using a book to grow your platform, our panel agreed on this: you need a strategy that creates long-term visibility—not just a short-term spike.
1. Build Your Email List
Your email list is your most powerful tool—and the only platform you truly own.
“You have full control over your mailing lists. They're safe, trackable, and you can do all kinds of sophisticated things with them down the road.” — Jenn T. Grace
Jenn shared how she built a two-year nurture sequence for readers who download book bonuses—proving that list growth is a long game, not just a launch-week task.
2. Prioritize Reviews Over Rankings
Amazon’s bestseller ribbon can vanish within hours. But verified reviews stay, build trust, and drive sales.
“Reviews are social proof that stick. They influence buyers, podcasters, and event organizers.” — Robbie Samuels
Focus on activating your audience to leave honest, verified reviews—especially during your soft launch or relaunch window.
3. Think Like a Platform, Not a Campaign
Your book isn’t a one-time event. It’s part of a larger visibility ecosystem.
“If you don’t have a marketing plan that already works, your book is like a rocket ship taking off and falling into the ocean.” — Melanie Herschorn
Create momentum that goes beyond the launch—opt-ins, evergreen content, speaking outreach, even second-edition or audiobook relaunches.
Where Bestseller Still Belongs
Bestseller status isn’t useless. But it should be one part of a bigger visibility strategy, not the whole goal.
“You can hit number one in some obscure category at 2am, but that doesn’t mean your book will do anything for your business.” — Robbie Samuels
Use it as a credibility tool—but only when it's supported by real outcomes like engagement, email list growth, or speaking leads.
Use Awards as an Authority Multiplier
If you want recognition that cuts through the noise, strategic awards may have more impact than a fleeting badge.
“If four of us wrote the same book, and one of us had ‘award-winning’ on the cover… that’s the one that would stand out.” — Jenn T. Grace
Choose awards judged by real people. Look at past winners. Submit strategically—and use any recognition as a long-term brand asset.
Your Book Still Has a Job to Do
One of my favorite moments in the conversation was this:
“Your book doesn’t fall off a cliff. As long as it’s an evergreen topic, you can keep marketing it—even if it was written three years ago.” — Melanie Herschorn
We see this all the time with our clients at Twin Flames Studios—especially those launching audiobooks years after their initial print release. With the right strategy, older books often perform better the second time around.
Let's Recap: What Actually Works in 2025
If you’re serious about using your book to grow your business, here’s where to focus:
Email list growth (and an automation plan behind it)
Verified reviews (collected during a soft launch or relaunch)
Speaking engagements (with a clear positioning and pitch)
Awards and recognition (strategically chosen and submitted)
Audiobook relaunches (as a second chance to make a first impression)
You don’t need to be perfect. You just need a real plan that keeps working long after your book goes live.
Want in On Our Next Expert Panel?
Join our monthly series where we talk real-world publishing, visibility strategy, and the business of authorship—no fluff, just what’s working now. Reserve your spot here.
Final Thoughts
Your book is more than content. It’s a catalyst.
Whether you’re launching your first or relaunching your fifth, don’t just chase bestseller status. Build a system that turns your book into long-term visibility, relationships, and results.
Your message matters. Let’s make sure people hear it.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
With its dramatic development over the past two years, artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping everything from writing and editing to marketing and intellectual property rights.
As authors and experts, you are the ones who will decide whether AI is a replacement to be feared or a tool to be mastered.
One thing is for sure though: AI is not a far-off fantasy.
That’s why I recently hosted some of the leading experts with experience in both authoring and publishing technologies: Thad Mcllroy, Elizabeth Ann West, and Jason Hamilton to discuss AI’s role in publishing and how you should navigate this important industry transformation.
The Current Landscape: Where Are We With AI in Publishing?
Is AI a disruptive innovation or a passing fad?
As Thad McIlroy, publishing analyst and author of The AI Revolution in Book Publishing, put it: “They're still asleep at the wheel, and the car is moving very rapidly down the freeway.”
While some major publishers remain skeptical, independent authors and small presses are already leveraging AI to increase productivity and expand creative possibilities.
For example, our live poll during the live panel showed an even split between attendees actively using AI and those still exploring.
The Big Five Ways AI Is Disrupting the Publishing Industry
Writing and Creative Process
Elizabeth Ann West, bestselling author and founder of Future Fiction Academy, emphasized that “AI's biggest threat is not to publishers—but to authors who ignore it.”
“Society needs authors using AI, not publishers,” she said. “With the right fine-tuning and prompting, AI can now generate publishable fiction that “makes you laugh, makes you cry.”
Jason Hamilton, author and founder of The Nerdy Novelist, encouraged creators to think bigger: “This isn’t about how to publish more books. Everybody can do that now. It’s about how we can do things that were never possible before.”
Editing and Productivity
If you need a burden lifted off your shoulders, AI is a useful tool to decrease stress and enhance workflow.
By using fine-tuning, you can draft entire scenes or chapters, suggest structural edits, or mimic your own writing style with surprising accuracy.
Marketing and Book Descriptions
If marketing seems like the bane of your existence, you’re not alone.
AI is changing that.
Hamilton shared his method for generating high-quality book descriptions: “Find a top indie in your genre, break down their blurb sentence-by-sentence with AI, then build a template. Feed in your synopsis, and you're already in the top 10%.”
Legal & Ethical Considerations
There’s still a lot of confusion and concern about copyright. However, it’s helpful to note that risks are more about misinformation than infringement.
West broke it down: “You can't copyright AI-generated words—but you can copyright the selection and arrangement.”
Think of it like fanfiction, where the author’s original additions are protected.
Thad McIlroy added, “The Copyright Office is misinterpreting the technology. What they're declaring is not realistic in this particular age of AI generation.”
Industry Dynamics and Market Saturation
AI is resulting in thousands of new books being published, but is the quality there yet?
AI is only as valuable as the person controlling it. Authors with a distinctive voice, a personal brand, and a strategy will prevail over the “AI slop” every time.
And if you’re a fan of niche genres, you’re in luck! If new technologies halve a book’s creation time, serving a smaller audience will be worth the hassle.
What Most Authors Miss
AI shouldn’t be treated like a magic button.
Don’t fall into that trap.
Instead, West emphasizes integrity and diligence: “You want a tool that gives you control, not one that does it for you.”
How to Start Using AI (the Smart Way)
Identify your biggest pain point (book descriptions, editing, plotting)
And above all: practice. The future of publishing is powered by AI.
Success won't come from blind adoption or rejection. It will come from authors who are willing to learn, adapt, and keep their creative integrity front and center.
I can’t wait to see what you create next!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
While the publishing industry has undergone a period of rapid transformation, publicity as an industry may be changing even faster.
For authors and experts like you, publicity is still an essential tool to grow your audience, establish credibility, and, yes, sell books. But gone are the days of simply getting meaningful PR by sending out a press release and hoping for the best.
The most effective strategies now focus on reaching the right audience, not the largest one.
Your approach must focus on specific markets and opportunities, delivering the right message during those opportunities, and creating long-term relationships.
This is why I recently hosted some of the leading experts with experience in both the publishing and publicity industries: Mary O’Donohue, Jess Todtfeld, and Marissa Eigenbrood to share insights on what works, what doesn’t, and how to turn media attention into real results. Our own CMO, Ken Course, also chimed in with some timely insights.
What's Changed and What Hasn't
Traditional media has avoided a complete fall from grace but is nowhere near its gold standard status of years past.
The reason? With the rise of algorithms and increasingly short attention spans, niche media opportunities have become the most influential source of PR.
This means podcasts, targeted articles, and industry blogs are more likely to attract the right people who will support your work long after a fleeting TV appearance.
That’s not to say traditional media has no value, but effective publicity today requires a more diverse strategy. Developing multiple media touchpoints will get you to results faster.
Where Should You Focus Your PR Efforts?
Many authors and experts dream of the “home run” scenario.
While big media opportunities are impressive to have on your website or resume, they don’t always generate book sales.
Mass market, or “chasing the big crowd,” often misses your most engaged audience.
Jess Todtfeld notes that while high-profile appearances look impressive, “The right podcast audience is more likely to buy your book.”
Mary O’Donohue emphasizes the importance of clarity: “Know your goals—visibility and book sales are not always the same thing.”
Marissa Eigenbrood advises balancing different types of opportunities. “Brand-building media and audience-building media should work together,” she says.
Strategic, targeted publicity will award you the long-term results you need.
Do's and Don'ts of Media Interviews
What to Do:
Deliver value and don’t overdo the sales pitch. “Media interviews are a marketing asset someone else pays to create. If you treat it like an infomercial, you’ll lose the audience.” – Mary O’Donohue
Have a “real” conversation. “TV and radio hosts want a conversation, not a monologue. Be personable and responsive.” – Marissa Eigenbrood
Prepare strong answers to questions and reinforce them with a strong takeaway. “When an interviewer asks about your book, don’t say, ‘That’s in chapter five.’ Instead, give them a strong takeaway that makes them want to know more.” – Jess Todtfeld
Don’t forget your call to action, but make sure to give answers with substance. “Your appearances should always direct people to your website where they can sign up for something valuable or to take the next step with you.” – Ken Course
What to Avoid:
Being overly promotional. “Your job isn’t to sell; it’s to showcase your expertise and give value. The audience will buy your book if they trust and connect with you.” – Mary O’Donohue
Relying on “one big interview.” “Media exposure is about frequency. Keep showing up in different outlets to build recognition and credibility.” – Jess Todtfeld
Don’t forget to repurpose your media. “After an interview, share it everywhere. Leverage your appearance for months by repurposing clips, quotes, and key moments.” – Marissa Eigenbrood
Remember, the goal for every appearance is connection, not promotion.
Turning Your Publicity into Actual Book Sales
In the end, you want your media to convert into actual results.
This means going from attention to action.
Marissa Eigenbrood emphasizes, “Media exposure builds awareness, but consumers need multiple interactions before making a purchase.”
How to Make Your Publicity Convert:
Always have a way to capture leads. “Rather than sending readers to Amazon, direct them to your website where they can engage with your brand and access exclusive content.” – Ken Course
Have a variety of valuable offers. “Create incentives like downloadable guides, private Q&A sessions, or limited-time discounts to turn interest into sales.” – Jess Todtfeld
Leverage each appearance for weeks or months afterward. “One interview can be turned into multiple marketing assets—blog posts, social media snippets, email content. Maximize every piece of media exposure.” – Mary O’Donohue
When your calls to action are clear and easy, it makes a big difference.
For example, one of our recent authors saw their book ranking jump from #650,000 to #97 on Amazon overnight after an online article linked directly to their book page.
The Tools You Need for Successful PR
Check out these amazing resources our panel shared to streamline your outreach and stay organized:
ListenNotes (free/paid) – A searchable podcast database to find relevant shows.
MuckRack– A tool for researching journalists, tracking their coverage, and finding media contacts.
RecurPost – A scheduling tool for automating social media posts and maintaining a consistent online presence.
Cision (higher cost) – A comprehensive PR database for advanced media outreach and journalist connections.
PodMatch – A platform for podcast hosts and guests to connect and schedule interviews.
And of course, be sure to check out our Twin Flames StudiosAuthor Resource Directory to find credible, experienced PR help.
This includes contact information from our panelists!
The key to success is having a diverse and refined approach.
This results in better media coverage, bigger results, and ensures that every appearance works harder for your book, your brand, and your audience.
I can’t wait to hear how you put these tips into practice!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
2025 is shaping up to be one of the biggest years of transformation for the publishing industry ever.
From groundbreaking AI tools to massive shifts in traditional publishing models, authors like you are navigating a wide range of challenges and exciting opportunities.
This is also why I recently hosted some of the leading experts in the publishing industry (and more of them are coming up here) Jane Friedman, Dale L. Roberts, and Andrea Fleck-Nisbet to explore the trends that you need to follow.
This is what you need to know to succeed with your project in the year ahead.
The Trends Changing the Publishing Industry Right Now
Hybrid Collaborations: The Best of Both Worlds
The publishing industry is changing their approach to partnering with authors in a big way.
The good news? A partnership gives authors like you access to wider retail markets while still retaining control over your digital rights.
Deals like this just weren’t possible in the past and traditional publishers weren’t as interested in them.
As a great example, check out Bloom Books, an imprint of Sourcebooks backed by Penguin Random House.
So what will this mean for you?
Hybrid collaborations will open doors for authors who have proven their market potential and want help scaling their success.
It’s a completely new type of marketplace.
AI’s (Obviously) Changing the Game
So, is it worth the hype yet?
Kind of…
But maybe not in the way you think.
AI is driving advances in translation, drafting, and audiobook production which makes publishing a lot more accessible. But there are a lot of warning flags popping up when it comes to copyright and author rights.
This is why tools like Created by Humans are helping ensure authors are compensated when their work is used to train AI models.
The legal and ethical battles over AI are still ongoing, which means it’s not going to be settled for a while yet.
Most importantly, while the technology is improving rapidly, it still lacks the nuanced touch of a human creator.
Should you be ignoring AI completely? Absolutely not. However, you should be carefully considering where and when to use it appropriately.
The Market Is Consolidating
In not so great news, many smaller distributors are starting to collapse.
This consolidation means narrowed options for indie authors and small presses while shifting the balance of power to larger distributors.
As a sad example, take a look at what recently happened with Diamond Comics.
What this means for you is that you likely won’t find as many options as you have in previous years.
The Opportunities You Need to Take Advantage of in 2025
It’s Easier than Ever to Engage Directly with Your Readers or Community
Your email list is still your most important asset and it’s more than a marketing tool—it’s your VIP lounge for building lasting connections.
Authors and publishers are building communities on social platforms that go beyond a single book sale.
This means you should be thinking of yourself as a community leader from the start.
Genre Interest is Shifting into Escapist Fiction and Reader Comfort (But Don’t Just Chase the Trends)
Readers are seeking comfort in uncertain times.
This means that genres like Cozy Fantasy are exploding in popularity. Think of it as your literary equivalent of a warm blanket and a cup of tea—hobbits optional. This trend of stories with low stakes and high vibes shows no signs of slowing.
But, while it’s tempting to jump on a bandwagon, authenticity really matters.
Writing what resonates with you and your audience is far more sustainable than chasing fleeting trends and will make it easier for you to maintain your community as discussed above.
You Have Access to More Data and Sales Opportunities Than Ever
Platforms like Benevity, LaterPress, and BookVault empower authors to sell directly to readers, retain higher royalties, and gather invaluable data about their audiences.
The great part: you get access to more data than you’ve ever had before!
Unlike traditional platforms like Amazon and Ingram, which only give you limited insights, direct sales platforms give you a clear view of your customers and buying trends.
Owning this data helps you:
Make smarter marketing decisions.
Build stronger connections with readers.
Optimize pricing and promotional strategies.
More and more, it's up to you to keep control of your list, sales, and community.
The tools are more accessible than ever.
Don’t Forget About Crowdfunding!
Crowdfunding may seem like it has come and gone, but that’s far from the case.
Kickstarter and other platforms are offering authors ways to fund your project while building excitement, community, and engagement the whole time.
For example, one author used Kickstarter to fund an entire national speaking tour while promoting their book—which changed the entire model of their launch.
Even When the Industry Changes, the Possibilities Are Still Huge
You’ll notice a theme in all of these points – expansion.
Yes, the model that has existed forever is going through a rude awakening. What most people think of when it comes to publishing doesn’t exist in the same way as before.
But, publishing in 2025 is still a world of possibilities.
And there’s still nothing quite like the impact of a book.
The future of publishing isn’t just about trends—it’s about how you as a leader, author, and creator tell stories that matter to your audience.
Want to see the entire hour with our expert panel? Watch it here!
I can’t wait to see what you create next.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
Connecting With People Through the Power of Audiobooks
How are you getting your audience’s attention?
As you know, content is everywhere and the demands for attention are higher every day.
It’s easy for even the most compelling messages to get lost in the noise.
It’s critical to cut through the clutter and truly connect with your audience on a deeper, more personal level.
This is where the benefits of audiobooks now truly shine…
Audiobooks aren’t just a “format;” they’re an intimate experience that brings your words to life. When your voice tells your story, it’s not just heard—it’s felt. The cadence, the emotion, the subtle inflections—they all add layers of meaning that deepen the connection between you and your listener.
It’s an opportunity for deeper connection through content than nearly any other type of content that you will invest your time in creating.
Your message is more than just words on a page; it’s a reflection of your passion, your expertise, and your vision. When you translate that into an audiobook, you’re not just sharing information—you’re forging a connection.
So why aren’t more people producing audiobooks?
There are a few common issues and misconceptions we hear when talking with authors, publishers, editors and book coaches.
Misconception 1: Audiobooks Won’t Reach My Audience
Many authors underestimate the reach and influence of audiobooks. They think that their audience prefers physical books or eBooks and that producing an audiobook won’t add much value. But the truth is, audiobooks have steadily grown in popularity over the years.
52% of all U.S. adults have listened to an audiobook in their lifetime, and in 2023, revenue increased by 9% to $2 billion, according to the Audio Publishers Association.
Moreover, audiobooks can expand your reach to people with disabilities or those who prefer auditory learning. For many, reading can be a challenge due to visual impairments or dyslexia. Audiobooks offer an inclusive way for these individuals to enjoy your work without barriers.
By not offering an audiobook, you could be missing out on connecting with a whole segment of your audience who prefers consuming content in this format.
Misconception 2: Audiobooks Now Aren’t a Good Investment
Another common misconception is that producing audiobooks now requires a costly investment with little return. However, this couldn’t be further from the truth. Audiobooks can dramatically increase your audience, influence, and income. An audiobook has the potential to generate revenue indefinitely. Plus, with platforms like Audible, Google Play, Apple Books, and even Spotify, it’s easier than ever to distribute your audiobook to a global audience.
Authors are often surprised to learn that they don’t have to give away their royalties or go through a complicated process to see a return on their investment. The key is to work with an experienced team that understands how to navigate the audiobook market effectively.
Misconception 3: Audiobook Production is Complicated and Time-Consuming
Perhaps the most common reason authors hesitate to create an audiobook is the belief that it’s a complicated, time-consuming process. Many authors don’t know where to start or feel overwhelmed by the technical aspects of audiobook production. This is where working with a partner like Twin Flames Studios can make all the difference. We handle everything—from recording and editing to distribution—so you can focus on what you do best: telling your story. Our streamlined process ensures that your audiobook is produced to the highest quality standards while allowing you to maintain full creative control.
Let’s Create Audio Magic Together
The world of audiobooks is rich with opportunity, and there’s never been a better time to explore it.
Ready to take the next step?
I’m hosting an in-depth webinar on September 19th, 2024 at 12 PM Eastern that will show you how to boost your bottom line, expand your audience, and create an audiobook that will give you content for years to come. This is where you start.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
All the publishing world was abuzz in 2023 with the inclusion of AI Audiobooks on the “Big 5” retail outlets Audible, Google Books, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble, and Kobo. Impassioned pleas for authenticity have clashed with diatribes on accessibility and cost across virtual platforms and conference rooms alike.
In 2024, the news cycle on this topic has simmered down considerably, leaving some important questions unanswered.
Are AI narrated Audiobooks selling?
Is it cost effective to use AI narration for Audiobooks?
Does the technology actually work?
Will I damage my reputation by using AI narration?
What about any innovations or “special cases” where AI narration can help with Audiobook production or sales?
Are AI Narrated Audiobooks Selling?
The short answer is NO.
It turns out that in 2023, resistance to AI narrated Audiobooks intensified. Audiobook listeners reported they weren’t likely to listen to AI generated audiobooks, even if the voice of the author was cloned.
Reviewing the presence of AI audiobooks in the marketplace, there are fewer than two thousand AI voiced audiobooks on the market, most with not great reviews, if any reviews at all.
For contrast, remember that 2700 books a DAY are published in the US alone.
Let’s call this initial reception to AI narrated Audiobooks “cool to lukewarm at best.” With all the buzz around AI in general throughout 2023, why didn’t AI Audiobooks perform well?
I’ll sum it up in one sentence.
NO ONE WANTS A ROBOT VOICE IN THEIR EARS FOR 4, 5, OR 8 HOURS.
This isn’t new. I interviewed a former long-time employee of Learning Ally, a respected and long-standing company devoted to providing accessible materials for children with learning differences, Michael Kinsey. Michael specializes in audio production and, in particular, Audiobooks. He’s also one of our Audiobook directors here at Twin Flames Studios.
“When text to speech came out, we wanted to use the technology to make more books available and accessible. The problem was, no one wanted to listen to a synthetic voice,” explained Kinsey.
“For example, we had a text to speech version of the book The Outsiders, which was taught in a lot of high school English classes for many years. Not very many students accessed it. But when we brought in a professional Audiobook Narrator to create a new version, suddenly the Audiobook version became one of our top titles. Students were listening to the Audiobook even when they didn’t have an assignment related to it.”
While the state of text to speech technology has come leaps and bounds in recent years, our ears and brains are discerning. When it comes to longer-form content like Audiobooks and podcasts, the numbers show that the technology isn’t good enough yet to replicate the nuance of the human voice.
Is it Cost Effective to Use AI for Audiobook Narration?
I keep hearing AI Audiobook narration being referred to as “cost effective.” That implies that you can get the job done for less and still reap the benefits. But if AI narrated Audiobooks aren’t selling well, we can’t call this a cost effective solution.
AI Audiobook Narration cost can range from free to about 5K per Audiobook. For the sake of comparison, our full Audiobook packages tend to range from 3-5K in either the case of author narration or professional narration.
This isn’t just about numbers; it’s about impact. Just think what those 250 people will accomplish by taking action in their lives, in their businesses, in their communities – because of what they learned as a result of your book.
If you go with one of the free options, you’re going to spend a considerable amount of time learning how to edit your Audiobook to get it to a finished product, and not even a finished product that would compare well with a human narrated audiobook.
Does the Technology for AI Audiobook Narration Really Work?
I do believe that at some point, AI audio will become pretty much indistinguishable from human voices. Since it’s not there yet though, here’s what we know is possible, based on research across Audiobook platforms and AI voice options.
1. AI audio narration voices are available in more than 25 different languages. HOWEVER, the translations are wildly inaccurate, particularly for long-form audio like an audiobook.
Want to know more about how inaccurate? Leave a comment on this post and if there’s enough interest, we’ll do a video demo!
Besides errors in translation from language to language, here are some other pitfalls of the current technology that it doesn’t handle well:
2. Dialects and diverse expressions
For example, one publisher of Judaic books noted to me that he had to abandon AI as a feasible option because AI can’t make the “Jewish” sounds denoted by Hebrew glottal [ʔ] (א) and [h] (ה), uvular [χ] (ח), and pharyngeal [ʕ] (ע).
3. Pronunciation issues and regionalisms
Getting AI to correctly pronounce names, or understand if you want the word “aunt” pronounced “ant” or “awnt,” or if you’re a Canadian author and want “process” pronounced “pro-cess” instead of “praw-cess,” is an exercise in frustration.
I could give you at least 50 examples of single words that have multiple pronunciations like the ones above.
4. Emotional nuance, pauses, and humor
We know from decades of sales data that what sells an Audiobook is the quality of the narration. The more a narrator, be they the author or a voice actor, feels like they’re right there with you and drawing you in, the better and more impactful the audiobook.
AI doesn’t know how to breathe, and lacks the natural cadence and pacing of human voices. This not only gives us that “uncanny valley” feeling when we listen, it also impacts the performance. AI doesn’t understand where nuanced pauses should go, or sometimes what words need to be emphasized. It definitely doesn’t understand jokes, irony, or sarcasm.
Imagine a romance novel where the narrator doesn’t understand longing, or desire…
Imagine a business book where you’re trying to learn something important, but the pauses aren’t in the right place, or the author meant something to be ironic and now you’re left feeling confused.
Our Senior Audiobook Director, Paul Stefano, has narrated many, MANY dozens of Audiobooks in his career, both fiction and nonfiction. Recently, he decided to license his voice to a reputable AI narration company, and they sent him a professionally edited audio sample of his AI voice clone. The voice clone was created from a recording of an audiobook that Paul owns the rights to, and this represents the best current technology in AI cloning that is easily accessible to the public.
Listen to both brief samples, and then imagine listening to each voice for 4, 6, 8, or 10 hours.
AI Narration Sample:
Natural Sample:
Will I Damage my Reputation by Using AI narration?
The Internet has a long memory. Back when The Gifts of Imperfection was originally published in 2010, Brene Brown’s publisher didn’t have her narrate the audiobook. In fact, the narrator wasn’t even close to Brene’s vocal style.
Things did not go well.
The book sold 3 million copies, but the audiobook did NOT.
One of the biggest requests that Brene had over the years was a version of that audiobook with her narrating, because Brene is highly known for her voice. She originally went viral via her TED Talk, she has podcasts, and her candor and combination of deep research and insight combined with a naturally enthusiastic “folksy” presence gives Brene a vocal thumbprint that is unmistakable.
What does this have to do with AI?
Well, if a highly produced Audiobook plus a professional, but ‘off the mark’ casted narrator hurt Brene’s Audiobook sales and ratings that much, just imagine what the reaction would be to an AI narrator.
When Brene released the 10th anniversary edition of The Gifts of Imperfection, she narrated a new version of the audiobook, and the ratings and reviews speak for themselves.
Not everyone is going to have Brene Brown’s level of notoriety and success, but she didn’t start out a multiple NYT bestseller. She was a college professor and researcher. If you are planning on being known for your voice as an expert, speaker, or industry leader, you need to cherish and cultivate your voice as a unique asset. If you’d like to get started with some exercises to help you develop your voice, here are some tools and resources for you.
What About Any Innovations or “Special Cases” Where AI Can Help with Audiobook Production or Marketing?
Yes, there are several places where AI is super helpful!
Overall, short-form content like social media is a good place for the current state of AI audio. We’re already used to hearing AI voices in social media on many viral reels, and this can save creators time and energy. Plus, if you’re not someone who loves being on camera, using an AI voiceover can work just fine for short content.
I personally love a good doggo voice over.
AI tools for promoting your Audiobook are becoming more abundant as well, which we love. I’m a fan of Vidyo.ai, which automatically edits longer video into clips for social media, blogs, etc.
PRO TIP: Convert your Audiobook files from .mp3 to .mp4 and get the AI to suggest short, interesting clips of your audiobook for promotional Videograms. You can also reach out to us to create these for you, they’re great for evergreen marketing campaigns, and cross promoting your articles, blogs posts, and newsletters with your audiobook.
And as a final thought, we’d love to see AI continue to evolve so that we could use it to make Audiobook edits. While an entire AI Audiobook narration is hard on our ears and brains, being able to replace some words using AI narration would be a great use of time, energy, and money for authors, narrators, and producers/publishers alike.
Audiobooks continue to sell at an accelerated rate, with double digit growth year on year for the last 12 years. They’re an enduring format, but what makes an Audiobook truly endure the test of time is the quality of narration. If you’re ready to create an Audiobook that you’re proud of for decades to come, contact us and let’s get your work into more ears and hearts.
Read and watch more Frequently Asked Questions about Audiobooks and benefit from our expertise, or Contact Us for more information and forthright advice about producing, distributing, and profiting from Audiobooks. Plus, download our Vocal Leadership Workout to develop and refine your the most influential tool you have — your voice!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
In early January of this year, the tech giant Apple launched a catalog of over 25 audiobooks completely narrated by artificial intelligence. If you’ve written a book or have a podcast, this is some industry shaking news. AI is predicted to play huge roles in audio industries this year, and it shows no signs of slowing down. What does this mean for thought leaders? Is a robot coming to replace you?
Well, no. If anything, this is an opportunity to further use your authentic voice as an essential part of your brand.
First, let’s get one thing straight: the need for a human voice is not going away. AI audio is a great cheap option, but humans crave more depth than what it has to offer. AI cannot accurately add breathing into audio at this time, which is key for how humans listen and interpret the credibility of a narrator, as well as the emotional content. Inflection, modulation, sarcasm, and much more are all beyond the current technology’s capability.
Even more, AI audio runs the risk of dipping into the “uncanny valley,” a psychological phenomenon where people feel uneasy around things that appear similar to, but not quite human.
Our voices are invaluable resources, and the data shows this. Podcasts and audiobooks continue to grow at unprecedented rates. Take a look at the growth:
The podcasts and audiobooks that an ever growing audience are seeking out feature authentic human voices. Our unique speaking styles as thought leaders are something that AI can never replace. In fact, doubling down on our uniqueness by utilizing our voices as an essential part of our brands is a smart growth and marketing strategy that we can explore further in conversation together.
However, this isn’t to say that all AI is bad, or that it has no place in the audio industry. In fact, the judicious use of AI saves us on our precious resources of focus and time. Thought leaders and content creators can use up and coming technology to further their message. Take a look at some software you should keep your eye on this year:
As mentioned above, there’s no stopping artificial intelligence. And while the world is safe from a robot audiobook narrator apocalypse (for now), you can rest easy knowing that your authentic voice is your biggest asset. AI can only help you save time and broaden your reach this year.
Inspired to turn your Voice into influence and become a Thought Leader worth listening to?
Have you ever considered that your voice is an instrument and your thoughts and beliefs are the music you’re playing? If you want to learn how to “tune” your voice, take a listen to my guest appearance on the new episode of the More than a Few Words podcast, hosted by Lorraine Ball.(More Than a Few Words Podcast with Lorraine Ball, September 2021)
Recently, Tina joined Lorraine Ball on the More than a Few Words podcast to talk about how to use your voice to deepen your connection with others, enhance your credibility, and strengthen your leadership.
In this episode:
You'll discover the 5-7 different vocal qualities that are highly associated with credibility, trustworthiness, and perceptions of leadership
How these elements impact your career and income
Techniques to sound more professional, confident, and knowledgable
Lorraine BallHave you ever thought about what an amazing instrument your voice is? How the tone, the pitch and the tempo of your speaking voice can change how people view you? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, here's the show. Welcome to More Than a Few Words – a marketing conversation for business owners. MTFW is part of your digital toolbox and this is your host, Lorraine Ball. I grew up in New York. I have a slightly nasal New York accent. That's part of my voice. But over the years, I've certainly worked to try to moderate that. And it is important that you do, because you can create an impression with your voice. That's what we're going to talk about today. And I couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with than Tina Dietz. Tina's an award-winning and internationally-acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, corporate podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert. She has been featured on media outlets, including ABC, INC.com, Huffington Post, and Forbes.Tina's first podcast, The StartSomething Show, was named by INC Magazine as one of the top 35 podcasts for entrepreneurs. Her company, Twin Flames Studios, amplifies the influence of brands and leaders through high ROI audiobook and podcasting solutions. Tina, welcome to the show!
Tina DietzThanks, Lorraine. I really appreciate you having me on.
I am so excited to have you here, because this is something I've worked on a lot over the years and I think it's really important. But why don't we start with the question: What are the important qualities of someone's voice that makes them an effective leadership voice?
There’s about seven different qualities that are highly associated with someone's credibility, trustworthiness, and perception of leadership when it comes to vocal qualities. And the research around this is a little bit astounding. For example, Duke University did a study of almost 1000 CEOs, and found that on the topic of pitch alone, CEOs who had a lower pitch to their voice, had more tenure, commanded larger companies, had more perception of credibility and leadership, and made more money to the tune on average of an additional $180,000 per year.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
So that's really reassuring to someone like me, because as soon as you started talking about it, I heard the deeper bass tone, having come out of a corporate environment, lots of men, I'm like, “Of course that sounds better to their ears.” And that's something that's really hard for me to change. But I can work on the flow, the pacing, some of those other qualities that make me sound more confident.
Exactly. But you know, and the good news is, is that everybody's voice is like a fingerprint. It's unique to us. So if you have an unusual voice, it doesn't mean that you have to fit into a cookie-cutter situation to be unique. You just need to be more of yourself. And the more that you work your voice out like a muscle, like you would take care of your body—it's a very complex musculature in there and your lungs and your throat and your neck and your shoulders, your face, everything combined—you know this, this beautiful orchestra happening inside of your body to get your voice out into the world. If you pay attention to it and work it out, it'll do wonderful things for you.
As a business owner, I'm thinking, “Okay, I'm not going to be doing big presentations, I'm not going to be standing in front of a room of 100 people. Does my voice really matter?”
Yes, yes, it does. It absolutely does. Because business is all about relationships. And every relationship you form, whether it's with a prospective client, it's with colleagues, it's at a networking group, it's on a phone call, it doesn't matter, you bring your voice with you everywhere you go. And you owe it to yourself, and you owe it to the growth of your business, your company, to bring your voice with you and to have it be a representation of who you are as a leader, and who you are as a brand.
Do you think that you have a different voice when you're at home or at work? Is it one voice? Or does it change based on the situation? And those are obviously the two extremes, but does your voice change in different situations?
Yeah, yeah, I think it does. Because we have a range, right? Just like you have a vocal range low to high, we also have a range of expression. And sometimes the expression that you use in business is not necessarily going to be the same expression you use with your kids.
That being said, I think most people draw two strong boundaries between what's in business, and what's really in your heart. And the more integrated we become from the inside and the outside, the more effective we become as leaders. So vocal leadership isn't really all about the external voice, it's about the dance between your internal voice and your external voice. It's analogous to a virtuoso musician. So, if you imagine your external voice is the instrument you're playing, and your internal voice—your thoughts, your beliefs, your message, all the things that make you who you are—that's the music that you're playing. So if you can learn how to create the arrangement of the music that you're playing, and pay attention to the external instrument, that's when you become a virtuoso.
Wow, I love the comparison between your voice and an instrument, because it really, to me, it makes a lot of sense. I can see that whole tuning and being pleasant to the ear. And even jazz sometimes is appealing to a certain audience. So I like that analogy, because it can be… your voice needs to fit the situation, it also needs to be kind of true to who you are. Are there things that we do with our voice that really work against us? That send the wrong message?
We could do it pretty easily. There's two in particular that in a business setting, and we're talking specifically about leadership and credibility, that are credibility killers. One is vocal fry. Now, if you don't know what vocal fry is, you can think about the Kardashians. So it basically makes you sound uninterested. And you actually will hear a lot of this in advertising when they're advertising to millennials and younger. Generally, when they're advertising to Gen X and older, you won't hear near as much vocal fry as you would, because it's more typical to hear in the younger generations, and they don't react to it as much as older generations do. So I do think we'll see this changing, but it's at the end of the sentences and it gets dropped down really low. And in the research that's been done—Gonzaga University did a huge study on this—regardless of who was evaluating the interviewees, anyone who was being interviewed that used vocal fry in their voice across the board categorically—age, race, gender didn't matter—they were rated as less credible and less desirable, less trustworthy to take a job. So it's a huge thing in career development: don't have vocal fry in your voice. That's a really big one.
And the other one that is similar—same thing, but different—is up talking the end of your sentences. And up talking the end of your sentences kind of makes you sound not credible, and then people think you don't know what you're doing, because your sentences sound like a question. A lot of times you can't hear it when you're doing it yourself, so you have to have other people listen to you. This happens a lot in networking situations when somebody is introducing themselves and they feel uncertain on the inside and that gets reflected to the outside. So a good thing to take note of.
Awesome. So as we're wrapping this up, I really want to encourage people to check out Twin Flames Studios—lots of S's in there for me to practice. But I really want to encourage people to check out all the wonderful information you've got to learn more about this subject, because I think being able to communicate and communicate with confidence is such an important first step for everyone and especially for business owners.
It sure is. We actually have a vocal leadership workout. If anyone is interested. And we don't have a landing page for it, but if you connect with me on LinkedIn, or through our website. We're happy to send you a copy.
Awesome. Well, we will make sure that we include all those links. Thank you so much for being a part of the show.
Thank you, Lorraine. This is wonderful. I appreciate you.
If you've enjoyed today's conversation and you'd like to find more resources for your business, be sure to check out the Digital Toolbox at DigitalToolbox.Club. Look for MTFW wherever you listen to podcasts. This is another episode of More Than a Few Words. Thanks for listening.
Did you know that the first audiobook was created in 1929? Today, audiobooks are a billion dollar per year industry in the US alone! If you want to discover more about the power of audiobooks, check out my guest appearance on the new episode of the VIP Access Podcast, hosted by Michelle Herschorn.(VIP Access Podcast with Michelle Herschorn, November 2021)
Melanie HerschornHi again. I'm Melanie Herschorn, the digital content creator and marketing strategist and coach for women business owners, and welcome back to another episode of VIP Access. VIP stands for Visibility, Impact, Profit, and this podcast will get you inspired and fired up about content creation and marketing yourself and your brand. Each week you'll get marketing and mindset strategies, actionable tips, and the motivation you need to land more clients, nurture your leads, and position yourself as an expert in your industry. We also go behind the scenes with powerful women in business to discuss strategies, messaging and more. My mission is to empower you to stop spinning your wheels and to make your mark with your marketing. Ready to wow your ideal client and create a community of raving fans? Let's dive into today's episode!
Hi, and welcome back to VIP Access. I'm Melanie Herschorn. Today, my guest is an award-winning and internationally-acclaimed speaker and audiobook publisher and corporate podcast producer and vocal leadership expert. Her name is Tina Dietz, and she has been featured on media outlets from ABC to Huffington Post to Forbes and more. Her first podcast The StartSomething Show was named by Inc. Magazine as one of the top 35 podcasts for entrepreneurs and Tina's company, Twin Flames Studios, amplifies the influence of brands and leaders through high ROI audiobook and podcasting solutions. And you will hear from her mic how great she is with sound. So welcome, Tina. Thanks so much for being here.
Tina DietzThanks, Melody, I appreciate that.
I just, I have a background in radio, so when I hear a good mic, I get really excited. Totally geeking out on that.
We end up being like radio voice nerds and all of that. It's like, “Oh, listen to the sound quality.”
Love it. So okay, I don't even know where to start, because I'm just so excited to have you on today. Because not only are you a podcasting expert, but really audiobooks are so important. And I think that that's something that people who have written a book don't even necessarily think about, you know, in terms of a way to get more ears or eyes on their book, and to amplify their mission and their influence in the world. And so, I would love to know some statistics about audiobooks.
Oh, statistics about audiobooks? Well, it's a funny world. When I first started working with audiobooks, they'd been around since about 1930. This is not a new format.
You mean like book on tape, okay.
Book on tape. Before that, it was book on album, you know. Or I'll date myself and talk about, you know, when I was a little kid, we had those book and album combinations where it was, “When Tinker Bell rings her little bell, it's time to turn the page.” Or we used to get books on tape out of the library, which you can still do. Mostly they're CDs sometimes have these all in one little players, which are really interesting and cool.
A lot of people don't know that the military uses a lot of those books. A lot of audiobooks are consumed by our servicemen and women overseas. It's one of the ways that they stay in touch and they don't have to use the internet. So audiobooks reach into some really remote places in the world.
But what really happened, oh, let's go back about 10 years ago, audiobooks became truly digital. Audible, which is the largest audiobook distributor in the world–they handle about 60% of the market share worldwide–combined themselves with Amazon. For whatever you think about Amazon or your opinions about Amazon as a global company, one way or another, what they have done is made things more accessible for everyday people. And when everything went digital, audiobooks went digital, the cost of production for audiobooks dropped about 50%. That has continued to be the case.
So when, back in 2009 or so and earlier, to get an audiobook produced you were talking about at least $10,000 minimum. Now an audiobook can still cost that much, if you get a lot of bells and whistles: you've got a full cast, you're recording in a New York studio, you got Tinkerbell in there full costume makeup, ringing bells. But that is generally not the case. Now you can get your audiobook fully produced by a company like ours, or another high quality studio, generally for $3,000-$5,000. And that's full production, author-narration, professional-narration, really high quality work.
It can be done remotely without our having to go into a studio. And audiobooks, you mentioned statistics, audiobooks outsell eBooks about three to one. And they're a $1 billion plus industry just in the US alone. And there are new markets opening up overseas every single day with audiobooks, so it is a growing market. It's been double digit growth year on year for the last eight years. So it is crazy pants what is happening with audiobooks and it's just a really reliable, familiar way too to get books into more ears and reach more hearts with your message. And that's what we're out to do.
I love all of that. So I want to just break it down a little bit more. Let's say somebody wrote a book a couple years ago, they launched it, it didn't do great, because they didn't have the marketing in place. And now they're starting to work on the marketing, because I always say you wrote the book, it's still published, so let's keep going and try to get some excitement about it.
Totally with you on that.
Can you also couple that with an audiobook and make that an exciting launch?
Why yes, Melanie, you can. I'll go into my commercial voice there. Yeah, no, it's a great application for an audiobook. We call it a “Second Chance Launch,” and it is something that happens frequently. As you know, in the book world, particularly with first books and authors, you get very excited. It's almost like having a child. You do all this stuff to get the book ready and to get it out there, and then by the time you get it out, you're exhausted.
Right when you need to be at your best is when you want to be taking a break. The marketing falls down or the budget isn't there, or just the persistence and the will isn't there to keep going with that particular book, because it's taken everything you've got as an author just to get the book out on the market. Launching an audiobook six months, a year longer, two years, three years down the road, is a way to revitalize that title and get it back out there again. Some folks also do a second edition with their audiobook, but more than likely, if the material really is evergreen, like many of our authors it is, then just getting the audiobook out there is enough to revitalize and get things going again.
What if you hate the sound of your own voice?
Ah, yeah, I hear that a lot. Even in a room full of speakers, if I'm on a stage and I survey a room, and I say, “Who here doesn't like the sound of their own voice?” about half the room, even in a room full of speakers and podcasters will still raise their hand. And if it's a roomful of executives or entrepreneurs, more in the general space, about 80% of people will raise their hand to say they don't like their voice. A very common thing. It's a very human thing. You have to get used to it.
There's two pathways through that. One is to basically suck it up and get used to it. Seriously, that, that's kind of the way it works. And to rely on professionals like myself, like my team, who are going to be honest with you and say, “Really, your voice is going to be fine for this book. And this is how we're going to work with you on it.” Or we'll be honest with you and say, “You know what, your voice is great for a podcast. It's great for a keynote. But it's going to be challenging to listen to you for four or five, six hours straight. And here's why.” That really just depends on the voice. But a lot of times, it's for reasons you don't expect. People have unique voices. I have this wonderful colleague who is totally Jersey–totally New Jersey–she has the most amazing, gorgeous New Jersey accent. I've been trying to talk her into doing her audiobook. She's got a great podcast, and she's like, “No, no, no, I have to have a professional do it.” I said, “Don't you dare,” because her voice is part of her brand.
Exactly what I was gonna say. It's part of her brand. And so she's taking people away from her brand, if she doesn't own that. That's part of who she is.
That's part of her voice. And her articulation is great. She's fun to listen to. Her voice is musical. All the things that are engaging about a voice. She has her accent, which she worries about, is not going to be a problem. She's very engaging to listen to.
Now, this is something even though I've worked in radio, I've been trained how to have a radio voice so to speak. I worked in classical music, which is like, “And now we are going to play Bach” and like, you really have to be like “The Sonata in B Minor played by…
The Philharmonic Orchestra. We hope you enjoy it.
Yes, exactly! Exactly. And then the people are dozing off while listening, which is fine. And news, which is also a different way to talk. But when people are gonna stand there and talk for four hours, five hours, how do they keep up momentum?
Well, you don't talk for four or five hours. That's really the key. Even professional narrators don't tend to record for longer than two hours at a shot. It is vocal fatigue across the board. Even for our really, really experienced speakers, our speakers always come in and say, “Oh, no, I do 20, you know, gigs a week.” And you know, we work with great people who do amazing things out in the world, and then they get into the audiobook process, and afterwards are like, “Oh, that was different.” Not that it was bad, it gave them a whole new skill set, because we record our authors remotely from wherever they are in the world and we fully direct them through the entire process.
Just as if you were to go into a New York studio and you were to have a director right there live in your ear, we are live in the ears of our authors, usually from their home office. So we're catching their mistakes, we're making sure that their energy is good, making sure that they're getting across the message and the intention that they want to get.
When you're reading and delivering material at the same time, it's different than a rehearsed keynote, or even in the format where we are now, which is really casual. I'm not as worried about my articulation. I'm not delivering a particular set script. You know, when you're going through an audiobook, it's a certain type of breathing. It's much slower than most people are used to speaking at and it's usually a little bit more articulated. There's a couple of things that come into play and that's what we help with. But we work with authors, you know, if their energy level can't support speaking for two hours and getting a great performance, then we do it for one hour. We have another author, we're working on her second audiobook, Jennifer Brown, she's an amazing DEI consultant. She has opera training, and tons of vocal training, and she has vocal stamina like crazy, so she can go for three or four hours. But she is an outlier, so it works across the board.
I mean, I can only imagine how exhausting that would be. You're not just talking, you're “on.” I'm one of those people that after a full day of work, I need to just shut down and have complete silence. Because when you're “on,” it just takes so much out of you. Do you find that people falter in the middle? And you're just like, “Okay, we'll come back to this tomorrow.”
It depends on the day that they're having. We do a lot of prep work with folks. We have a whole document we deliver to help people understand the mindset, to prepare to do their audiobook, and that can move into the rest of their lives as well. You know, when any of us who have been in business for a while, as you're developing your leadership, you know, you have to maintain your energy management and your energy hygiene, I'll even call it. And that has to do with you know, introversion/extroversion. Do you need to be around people? Do you need to shut down, as you mentioned? I need to go out tonight and go to an open mic comedy night to recharge myself. I'm an extrovert. That's going to charge me up. That would be a nightmare for you, probably at the end of a long workday, if you needed to recharge your energy after so many things coming at you.
Not necessarily. I'm one of those people, I could just have like five minutes, put on more makeup, and go out and feel totally returned.
We'll have to keep that in mind when we meet in person.
Oh, I can't wait for that!
But the point is that, you know, you have to manage your energy. And that's a big part of what our directors and what we listen for, watch for, and talk with our authors about because it's a very personal journey.
For me, I, even though I've worked in radio, as I said, I am a visual learner. I think it's two-thirds of the population are visual learners. But audiobooks, they don't really go against that, I find. Like I can listen to a book on a long drive and take it in, take all of it in. And so do you find that there's ever any pushback about people who are like, “Well, I'm a visual learner, so I don't need an audiobook?”
It's an interesting world, because we're so wired for storytelling. It comes into a different part of the brain entirely, so the best thing about an audiobook is the intimacy that it creates between the narrator and the listener. And there's a neurological connection, even when you're in the car. Actually, 80% of audiobooks are listened to through earbuds. That's what the research says.
You know, we're not in our cars quite as much as we used to be on long commutes, especially in the last two years. But at the same time, even if you are listening through, you know, your car speakers, or your earbuds, which are going to be the two most common areas, there's a relationship that forms you know? You almost find yourself or maybe you do find yourself, responding in the case of fiction, a character, just like you're watching TV, and you want to say, “Don't open the door!” Or if you're listening to a book on personal development or leadership development, you may find yourself pausing just to have a conversation with yourself about, “Do I really believe that? I think they are full of crap. I don't know about that.” Or, “Oh, I never thought of that!” And you kind of have to process through it. Because it is, to one extent or another, a conversation, just based on the way that we're wired neurologically. So it is an intimate experience. And that's why the quality of narration is so very important. That is what sells audiobooks. It's the quality of narration.
Okay, I love that we got to that point because it is true. It's like, if you have grainy video or pretty terrible photos that's not going to excite your audience and grow your audience, but you need to have quality sound. And what people might not realize is you can hear lights. You can hear a dog barking in the distance, and that ambient sound can throw off so much other than just the sound of your own voice reading your book. So how do you account for that in somebody's house, if they don't have their own studio?
Well, I’ll tell you a little secret: about 85% of our authors record from a walk-in closet. And this is a very common thing, even in the professional narration world. It's very cozy. The atmosphere of a walk-in closet with the clothing around you very specifically buffers the sound. And usually there's a spot where you can set up a little portable desk, or a table and a chair and your microphone and record your audiobook with a director in your ear taking care of the recording for you. And that's where a lot of voice acting happens is in those small spaces. You absolutely can create things on your desk, as well. The other thing we recommend a lot that's a really easy setup for people is to take a plastic storage box, the kind that you would put a bunch of, you know, Christmas decorations and things like that. The Rubbermaid, Sterilite kind of containers, you'd get.
A giant Tupperware
A giant Tupperware container and then you take a piece of foam that you would put on top of a bed. Bed topper. Get it at Walmart or Target for $20, put it on the inside, stand it on end, and toss your microphone in it, and then you've basically got a little portable sound booth. I actually had one of those when I was living in Costa Rica that I did some professional voice acting from and the sound quality–it was great.
That's amazing. Yeah, and you got to live in Costa Rica, which is even more amazing.
It's a whole other story.
That's great. Okay, so I love how you're bringing this to more people. You know, where I sit as somebody who's currently working on writing a book and I work with authors, sometimes we feel like audiobooks are a little bit out of reach. You figure out whether you're going to be self-publishing, working with a hybrid publisher, or going the traditional publishing route, and then you're so focused on the launch, and “Am I going to be an Amazon bestseller? I don't know” and all that stuff. And then you're like, “Okay, well, now nobody knows about it. So I need to do the marketing. But wouldn't it be great if people could listen in their AirPods to me?” It almost feels like it's, it's just high up on this pedestal that we can't reach. So I love that you're bringing it to more people. So what you're saying is, pretty much everybody should do this.
I think if it's something that you can carve out, the budget for and the time for in the great scheme of things and also survey your audience. Do they listen to audiobooks? A lot of our authors come to us because they launched their book and the number one question they got was, “When are you doing the audiobook?” I hear this over and over again. We have lots of conversations with authors every single week, and it's either, “My publisher said I needed one,” “I have to have one because I love audiobooks,” or “I've launched my book and everyone's asking me for the audiobook. How quickly can we get it done?” So those are the things that we hear on a daily basis from authors, which is good news for everybody.
That's great. So how long does it take from start to finish? Because I've heard there are delays and it can be like a really long time before Audible says, “Okay, here you go.”
Audible, particularly on the self-publishing side of Audible, there can be glitches. There can be some issues. We produce a very pristine level. We do not get rejected by Audible. We [have] t's crossed, i's dotted. But there's very, very specific technical specs that your audio files have to meet for Audible. It is not like podcasting. It is not like doing any other kind of audio. The audio that I'm recording right now for this podcast would definitely not meet Audible standards. There would be background noise, there would be a noise floor issue, all kinds of stuff. And even the, the amount of space at the beginning and the end of the file and what's included–so many technical details. But we do this every day. We meet all those technical standards, so our books go through in generally about 10-15 business days through their system, which is average. It can take up to 30 business days to make it through Audible's system, if there's no mistakes in your files. So what happens is if there are mistakes in your files it gets bounced back to you. They'll tell you what the issues are, you have to fix it, and then you got to start back at the beginning of the queue again. And that's usually where the problems come into play because somebody has worked with someone that tried to do it themselves, or they worked with someone who isn't highly experienced. The author can't tell. They can't test it. They don't have the, the technical skills to do that, and then it becomes a problem. That's where people run into the most issues. And they come to us and say, “Can you fix these files?”
“Help us!” I get that. Now, is there ever a book that doesn't make sense to become an audiobook?
There's some that do better than others. Books that tend to be at least 35,000 words tend to do better in audio. Most audio platforms like Audible, our audiobooks are sold on a membership basis. So longer books have a higher perceived value, because you get a credit every month and you can buy any audiobook. Are you going to look for an audio book that's eight hours long, or two hours long? So there becomes a perceived value issue.
Okay.
Also, audiobook pricing is different than other book pricing. Audiobooks are priced on length, which irritates a lot of authors, and I completely understand that it is an issue in the industry. Having a book that's a little bit longer–30-35,000 words, at least–gets your pricing up into a range that you're going to be much happier with. That's one issue. Another one is books that are highly technical, highly visual. They're going to need an audio edit to make an audio version of and when we evaluate books, we go over that if there tends to be more of a technical guide.
Cookbooks and poetry–it really just depends on the market that you're in. We don't work with fiction. We are a nonfiction house, but we do often get people asking us for poetry. And we don't tend to work with those because you're better off working and getting that done kind of on your own in terms of price points, and things like that, because those poetry books are shorter books. And I almost think that you're better off releasing those as an album, like almost as music, so that you can control the pricing more, rather than as an audiobook. And that's not something a lot of people think of. Go get it audio designed and really make that book juicy and worth your while to do if you're working with poetry. But technical guides, cookbooks are another one that require some changes if you're going to do an audio version. And that's more from an accessibility standpoint. Most cookbooks are not going to be listened to as a traditional audiobook, but if you're looking to reach an audience of say, folks who have visual impairment, then that's another animal. So accessibility is a whole other part of the audio industry.
There is so much that we have unpacked today. And I feel like we just scratched the surface, truly.
It’s true.
But I love that when I asked you about statistics, you rattled off a number of them. So I really appreciate that. Because so often we hear about things and it's like, “Oh, is this the next shiny object that I need to go after?” And, you know, as entrepreneurs, as authors, it's often like, “Well, what if I don't get it? If I don't do this, as I going to miss out?” And so this really sounds like something that is worth investing in because of just the sheer number of people that you can reach in a way that is going to help them better because maybe they really want to read your book, but they just don't have time to sit and read their Kindle app, or they just don't have time to sit and leaf through the pages.
Now well, and the one beautiful thing I'll tell you is that a lot of times what happens with audiobooks, particularly in nonfiction, people get a nice case of “mightas-well-itis.” They'll get the audiobook to listen to so they can make it through the material and then they'll buy the paperback, so that they can go back and make notes and the salient points. We've had it happen all the time. So, many times if you are selling your audiobook and then giving away a Kindle version that can be annotated for free, it's nice to bundle those together. Or you'll see an uptick in your paperback or hardcover sales when you release your audiobook because people are buying both versions. There's all kinds of things on the marketing side of things we don't have time to get into today. But maybe another time. There's there's lots of cool stuff.
I love it. Alright, so how can people find out more about you and Twin Flames Studios?
But a worthwhile one. Well, Tina, thank you so much for being here today.
No, thank you, Melanie. This is great. I really appreciate it!
You've written a book. Now what? If you're ready to implement a simple content marketing strategy to create buzz around your book and your brand, schedule your free Sparkles and Strategy Call with me, Melanie Herschorn. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of VIP Access. We can't let the fun end here. To find out how engaging your content is, take the content quiz at MyContentQuiz.com. Plus, you're invited to join our private Facebook group at VIPDigital.live/community where you'll get live trainings and other great tips all about digital marketing. And if you've enjoyed listening to this podcast, head over to iTunes and leave me a rating and review. This tells iTunes that you found the show helpful and they'll share it with more women business owners just like you. Thank you so much for listening.
Have you ever considered that your voice is an instrument and your thoughts and beliefs are the music you’re playing? If you want to learn how to “tune” your voice, take a listen to my guest appearance on the new episode of the More than a Few Words podcast, hosted by Lorraine Ball.(More Than a Few Words Podcast with Lorraine Ball, September 2021)
Recently, Tina joined Lorraine Ball on the More than a Few Words podcast to talk about how to use your voice to deepen your connection with others, enhance your credibility, and strengthen your leadership.
In this episode:
You'll discover the 5-7 different vocal qualities that are highly associated with credibility, trustworthiness, and perceptions of leadership
How these elements impact your career and income
Techniques to sound more professional, confident, and knowledgable
Lorraine BallHave you ever thought about what an amazing instrument your voice is? How the tone, the pitch and the tempo of your speaking voice can change how people view you? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, here's the show. Welcome to More Than a Few Words – a marketing conversation for business owners. MTFW is part of your digital toolbox and this is your host, Lorraine Ball. I grew up in New York. I have a slightly nasal New York accent. That's part of my voice. But over the years, I've certainly worked to try to moderate that. And it is important that you do, because you can create an impression with your voice. That's what we're going to talk about today. And I couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with than Tina Dietz. Tina's an award-winning and internationally-acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, corporate podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert. She has been featured on media outlets, including ABC, INC.com, Huffington Post, and Forbes.Tina's first podcast, The StartSomething Show, was named by INC Magazine as one of the top 35 podcasts for entrepreneurs. Her company, Twin Flames Studios, amplifies the influence of brands and leaders through high ROI audiobook and podcasting solutions. Tina, welcome to the show!
Tina DietzThanks, Lorraine. I really appreciate you having me on.
I am so excited to have you here, because this is something I've worked on a lot over the years and I think it's really important. But why don't we start with the question: What are the important qualities of someone's voice that makes them an effective leadership voice?
There’s about seven different qualities that are highly associated with someone's credibility, trustworthiness, and perception of leadership when it comes to vocal qualities. And the research around this is a little bit astounding. For example, Duke University did a study of almost 1000 CEOs, and found that on the topic of pitch alone, CEOs who had a lower pitch to their voice, had more tenure, commanded larger companies, had more perception of credibility and leadership, and made more money to the tune on average of an additional $180,000 per year.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
And, you know, I know a lot of women like myself are like, “Crap!” You know, that's not necessarily a good statistic for us. But it's not that alone. The most highly, highly, highly associated vocal characteristic with credibility, leadership, trustworthiness is tempo. And this isn’t a particular tempo, it's your natural tempo. And this has to do with how we perceive somebody's breathing and their natural rhythm—the rhythm of their voice. So if you're, if you're talking a little bit too fast, and you're kind of gasping a little bit and all of that, that shows that you're maybe a little more anxious or nervous or not present. If you're talking slow, and a lot of pauses, then that may show that, again, you're not present and not confident or not sure of what you're saying. So those are two aspects of vocal qualities that really have been shown in research to make a difference. Other ones are sonority, which is the pleasantness of one's voice, articulation, as well as flow. And flow and tempo and articulation all kind of go together, as well.
So that's really reassuring to someone like me, because as soon as you started talking about it, I heard the deeper bass tone, having come out of a corporate environment, lots of men, I'm like, “Of course that sounds better to their ears.” And that's something that's really hard for me to change. But I can work on the flow, the pacing, some of those other qualities that make me sound more confident.
Exactly. But you know, and the good news is, is that everybody's voice is like a fingerprint. It's unique to us. So if you have an unusual voice, it doesn't mean that you have to fit into a cookie-cutter situation to be unique. You just need to be more of yourself. And the more that you work your voice out like a muscle, like you would take care of your body—it's a very complex musculature in there and your lungs and your throat and your neck and your shoulders, your face, everything combined—you know this, this beautiful orchestra happening inside of your body to get your voice out into the world. If you pay attention to it and work it out, it'll do wonderful things for you.
As a business owner, I'm thinking, “Okay, I'm not going to be doing big presentations, I'm not going to be standing in front of a room of 100 people. Does my voice really matter?”
Yes, yes, it does. It absolutely does. Because business is all about relationships. And every relationship you form, whether it's with a prospective client, it's with colleagues, it's at a networking group, it's on a phone call, it doesn't matter, you bring your voice with you everywhere you go. And you owe it to yourself, and you owe it to the growth of your business, your company, to bring your voice with you and to have it be a representation of who you are as a leader, and who you are as a brand.
Do you think that you have a different voice when you're at home or at work? Is it one voice? Or does it change based on the situation? And those are obviously the two extremes, but does your voice change in different situations?
Yeah, yeah, I think it does. Because we have a range, right? Just like you have a vocal range low to high, we also have a range of expression. And sometimes the expression that you use in business is not necessarily going to be the same expression you use with your kids.
That being said, I think most people draw two strong boundaries between what's in business, and what's really in your heart. And the more integrated we become from the inside and the outside, the more effective we become as leaders. So vocal leadership isn't really all about the external voice, it's about the dance between your internal voice and your external voice. It's analogous to a virtuoso musician. So, if you imagine your external voice is the instrument you're playing, and your internal voice—your thoughts, your beliefs, your message, all the things that make you who you are—that's the music that you're playing. So if you can learn how to create the arrangement of the music that you're playing, and pay attention to the external instrument, that's when you become a virtuoso.
Wow, I love the comparison between your voice and an instrument, because it really, to me, it makes a lot of sense. I can see that whole tuning and being pleasant to the ear. And even jazz sometimes is appealing to a certain audience. So I like that analogy, because it can be… your voice needs to fit the situation, it also needs to be kind of true to who you are. Are there things that we do with our voice that really work against us? That send the wrong message?
We could do it pretty easily. There's two in particular that in a business setting, and we're talking specifically about leadership and credibility, that are credibility killers. One is vocal fry. Now, if you don't know what vocal fry is, you can think about the Kardashians. So it basically makes you sound uninterested. And you actually will hear a lot of this in advertising when they're advertising to millennials and younger. Generally, when they're advertising to Gen X and older, you won't hear near as much vocal fry as you would, because it's more typical to hear in the younger generations, and they don't react to it as much as older generations do. So I do think we'll see this changing, but it's at the end of the sentences and it gets dropped down really low. And in the research that's been done—Gonzaga University did a huge study on this—regardless of who was evaluating the interviewees, anyone who was being interviewed that used vocal fry in their voice across the board categorically—age, race, gender didn't matter—they were rated as less credible and less desirable, less trustworthy to take a job. So it's a huge thing in career development: don't have vocal fry in your voice. That's a really big one.
And the other one that is similar—same thing, but different—is up talking the end of your sentences. And up talking the end of your sentences kind of makes you sound not credible, and then people think you don't know what you're doing, because your sentences sound like a question. A lot of times you can't hear it when you're doing it yourself, so you have to have other people listen to you. This happens a lot in networking situations when somebody is introducing themselves and they feel uncertain on the inside and that gets reflected to the outside. So a good thing to take note of.
Awesome. So as we're wrapping this up, I really want to encourage people to check out Twin Flames Studios—lots of S's in there for me to practice. But I really want to encourage people to check out all the wonderful information you've got to learn more about this subject, because I think being able to communicate and communicate with confidence is such an important first step for everyone and especially for business owners.
It sure is. We actually have a vocal leadership workout. If anyone is interested. And we don't have a landing page for it, but if you connect with me on LinkedIn, or through our website. We're happy to send you a copy.
Awesome. Well, we will make sure that we include all those links. Thank you so much for being a part of the show.
Thank you, Lorraine. This is wonderful. I appreciate you.
If you've enjoyed today's conversation and you'd like to find more resources for your business, be sure to check out the Digital Toolbox at DigitalToolbox.Club. Look for MTFW wherever you listen to podcasts. This is another episode of More Than a Few Words. Thanks for listening.
