As we head into the next presidential election you'll notice that the pitch, the pause, the rise and fall of a leader’s voice captures hearts and minds just as effectively—if not more so—than the words themselves.
As I’ve noted before, “The way you sound has a profound impact on how your message is received, often more so than the content of the message itself.”Do You Sound Like a Leader? explores this in greater detail.
As we look at the vocal delivery styles of 2024 presidential candidates Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, we find that the way a leader speaks can profoundly shape public perception. For leaders, experts, and entrepreneurs, understanding this dynamic can be the key to leading effectively and making your voice heard.
The Science of Persuasion: Why Vocal Qualities Matter
Sure, content is king. But the crown jewels? They’re all in the delivery. Robert Cialdini, the godfather of influence psychology, points out that authority and likability are key factors in persuasion—and these often hinge on how a message is delivered. As Cialdini explains, “We are more likely to be influenced by people who are authoritative, who appear credible and knowledgeable, regardless of the content of their message.” A deep, resonant voice doesn’t just sound good; it signals authority, commanding respect and attention before a leader even gets to the meat of their message.
Lee Hartley Carter, a renowned strategist and author of Persuasion: Convincing Others When Facts Don’t Seem to Matter, has spent years advising Fortune 500 companies and political campaigns on the art of effective communication. Her work highlights the critical role that emotional resonance and authenticity play in leadership. According to Carter, a voice that truly connects with listeners can make all the difference in persuasion. And let’s be honest, we’ve all been in meetings where the speaker’s monotone droning put us on a one-way trip to Snoozeville. But with the right vocal techniques, you can keep your audience engaged and attentive.
When a leader modulates their voice—using strategic pauses, varying their pitch, and adjusting their pacing—they’re not just holding attention; they’re shaping perceptions. A well-timed pause can create anticipation and emphasize a point, while variations in tone can keep the audience emotionally connected. Sometimes, how you say something lands more impactfully than what you say.
With these foundational ideas in mind, let’s explore how current leaders like Donald Trump and Kamala Harris use their vocal delivery to influence public perception.
Trump vs. Harris: A Vocal Showdown
The 2024 presidential race isn’t just a clash of ideologies—it’s a vocal duel. Donald Trump continues to wield his voice like a weapon, with his recent speech at the 2024 CPAC showcasing his signature assertive tone. As he declared, “We will take back the White House,” his booming voice was designed to project strength and determination to his base. It’s no wonder Trump’s rallies and speeches still feel like rock concerts—he’s mastered the art of keeping the audience on their feet, even if it’s with the same chorus repeated a dozen times. But as The Washington Post pointed out in 2019, while Trump’s “booming and relentless” tone solidifies his image as a strong leader, it’s also divisive. To some, his aggressive style comes off as bullying, deepening the divide between his supporters and detractors.
On the other side of the vocal spectrum is Kamala Harris. Her speech on gun violence prevention in June 2023 is a prime example of her calm, deliberate, and empathetic tone. Harris’s voice flowed with measured cadence, her empathetic tone wrapping around each word like a warm embrace—inviting listeners in rather than overwhelming them. During this speech, her deliberate pauses and slower pace were used to emphasize the gravity of the topic, resonating deeply with her audience. However, Harris faces a different set of challenges—particularly gender biases. As The New York Times explored in 2023, Harris’s vocal delivery is often judged against traditional gender expectations. Some praise her composed demeanor, while others criticize her for lacking the forcefulness they expect from a leader—especially when compared to male counterparts like Trump. This bias reflects broader societal expectations, where women leaders are often caught in a double bind: be too soft, and you’re weak; too strong, and you’re shrill.
Critical Thinking: Separating Content from Delivery
So, how can you navigate the nuances of vocal delivery without getting swayed by style over substance? Here are some tips:
Focus on the Content: Pay close attention to the actual message. Is the candidate backing up their claims with facts? Are they providing clear, logical arguments, or are they relying on emotional appeals and repetition to fill the gaps?
Beware of Emotional Manipulation: Notice when a speaker uses tone and inflection to play on your emotions. While emotions are a powerful communication tool, they shouldn’t replace rational analysis. As Lee Hartley Carter notes, “The leaders who resonate most emotionally with their audience are those who can authentically project the emotions that match their message. It’s not just what they say, but how they make people feel.” Ask yourself if the emotional tone aligns with the facts presented. How to Free Yourself from Emotional Velcro and Create Psychological Safety in the Workplace offers insights on managing emotional responses effectively.
Consider the Whole Picture: Vocal qualities can enhance or distort a candidate’s perceived credibility. Look beyond the delivery to assess their track record, policies, and actions.
Check Your Biases: Be mindful of unconscious biases that might affect how you perceive a candidate’s voice. Gender, race, and other factors can shape our perceptions of leadership qualities in ways we might not even realize.
Diversify Your Sources: Engage with a range of news outlets and analyses to get a balanced view. Different perspectives can help you see beyond any single source’s bias and get a fuller picture of the candidate’s platform and delivery.
Next time you hear a political speech, ask yourself: Are you being swayed by the logic of the argument, or is the speaker’s tone doing most of the work? How does the delivery shape your perception? By sharpening these critical thinking skills, you can better discern the substance behind a candidate’s words, making informed choices that go beyond surface-level impressions.
Summary and Takeaways
In leadership, how you say something can be as important—if not more so—than what you say. As we’ve seen with Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, vocal qualities significantly influence public perception, with societal biases adding another layer of complexity, particularly regarding gender. But by honing critical thinking skills and staying mindful of the difference between content and delivery, we can navigate these complexities and make more informed decisions. As the 2024 election approaches, let’s listen not just to the words our leaders speak, but to how they speak them. After all, it’s not just about sounding persuasive—it’s about leading with integrity. For more on this, see Strengthening Your Voice of Leadership in Uncertain Times.
And as we continue to explore the power of voice, whether in leadership or in technology like AI audiobooks, it’s clear that how we communicate can make all the difference.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
Connecting With People Through the Power of Audiobooks
How are you getting your audience’s attention?
As you know, content is everywhere and the demands for attention are higher every day.
It’s easy for even the most compelling messages to get lost in the noise.
It’s critical to cut through the clutter and truly connect with your audience on a deeper, more personal level.
This is where the benefits of audiobooks now truly shine…
Audiobooks aren’t just a “format;” they’re an intimate experience that brings your words to life. When your voice tells your story, it’s not just heard—it’s felt. The cadence, the emotion, the subtle inflections—they all add layers of meaning that deepen the connection between you and your listener.
It’s an opportunity for deeper connection through content than nearly any other type of content that you will invest your time in creating.
Your message is more than just words on a page; it’s a reflection of your passion, your expertise, and your vision. When you translate that into an audiobook, you’re not just sharing information—you’re forging a connection.
So why aren’t more people producing audiobooks?
There are a few common issues and misconceptions we hear when talking with authors, publishers, editors and book coaches.
Misconception 1: Audiobooks Won’t Reach My Audience
Many authors underestimate the reach and influence of audiobooks. They think that their audience prefers physical books or eBooks and that producing an audiobook won’t add much value. But the truth is, audiobooks have steadily grown in popularity over the years.
52% of all U.S. adults have listened to an audiobook in their lifetime, and in 2023, revenue increased by 9% to $2 billion, according to the Audio Publishers Association.
Moreover, audiobooks can expand your reach to people with disabilities or those who prefer auditory learning. For many, reading can be a challenge due to visual impairments or dyslexia. Audiobooks offer an inclusive way for these individuals to enjoy your work without barriers.
By not offering an audiobook, you could be missing out on connecting with a whole segment of your audience who prefers consuming content in this format.
Misconception 2: Audiobooks Now Aren’t a Good Investment
Another common misconception is that producing audiobooks now requires a costly investment with little return. However, this couldn’t be further from the truth. Audiobooks can dramatically increase your audience, influence, and income. An audiobook has the potential to generate revenue indefinitely. Plus, with platforms like Audible, Google Play, Apple Books, and even Spotify, it’s easier than ever to distribute your audiobook to a global audience.
Authors are often surprised to learn that they don’t have to give away their royalties or go through a complicated process to see a return on their investment. The key is to work with an experienced team that understands how to navigate the audiobook market effectively.
Misconception 3: Audiobook Production is Complicated and Time-Consuming
Perhaps the most common reason authors hesitate to create an audiobook is the belief that it’s a complicated, time-consuming process. Many authors don’t know where to start or feel overwhelmed by the technical aspects of audiobook production. This is where working with a partner like Twin Flames Studios can make all the difference. We handle everything—from recording and editing to distribution—so you can focus on what you do best: telling your story. Our streamlined process ensures that your audiobook is produced to the highest quality standards while allowing you to maintain full creative control.
Let’s Create Audio Magic Together
The world of audiobooks is rich with opportunity, and there’s never been a better time to explore it.
Ready to take the next step?
I’m hosting an in-depth webinar on September 19th, 2024 at 12 PM Eastern that will show you how to boost your bottom line, expand your audience, and create an audiobook that will give you content for years to come. This is where you start.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
We interrupt this Hot Girl Summer for an Emotional Velcro Vacation!
Thus far, 2024 has been characterized with the typical uncertainty we all experience during a presidential election year, regardless of politics. But add the extra seasoning of social and economic unrest, and that is one spicy meatball!
As a leader, do you feel like you’re carrying the weight of their world on your shoulders?
Need some quick ways to reduce stress without sacrificing productivity?
What is Emotional Velcro?
Simply, it’s the stress, anxiety, and emotional baggage you accumulate over time when interacting with other people.
It’s the “waxy buildup” of emotional residue that you often unconsciously adopt when leading teams, parent kids, partners, friends, and so on.
Taking Your Emotional Velcro Vacation
It’s time for some much-deserved relief and rejuvenation.
When you are stressed, ask yourself, “Why am I feeling this way?”
Are you carrying the emotions of someone else, even by accident? Figuring out the source of the emotional velcro can help bring about immediate relief or at least help you get to the next step.
First, talk with someone else like a coach, counselor or other trusted source. Or simply spend some time in reflection and analysis to discover the truth inside yourself or about the situation.
For some quick relief or practice, here are two vocal techniques you can use right now: sigh and rant. It’s like the “bend and snap” of 2024.
A deep sigh triggers your parasympathetic nervous system and your body’s relaxation response. It’s easy to do, and you can do this anywhere – which is why it’s one of my favorite techniques.
And the “rant” in question here is actually much less long-winded than it sounds. When I say “rant” I’m talking about unleashing a single word, done in a specific way that also has fantastic benefits for your nervous system.
Remember, taking care of your emotional well-being is not a luxury; it’s a necessity. So, take that first step today and start shedding the Emotional Velcro that’s holding you back. Your future self will thank you.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
All the publishing world was abuzz in 2023 with the inclusion of AI Audiobooks on the “Big 5” retail outlets Audible, Google Books, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble, and Kobo. Impassioned pleas for authenticity have clashed with diatribes on accessibility and cost across virtual platforms and conference rooms alike.
In 2024, the news cycle on this topic has simmered down considerably, leaving some important questions unanswered.
Are AI narrated Audiobooks selling?
Is it cost effective to use AI narration for Audiobooks?
Does the technology actually work?
Will I damage my reputation by using AI narration?
What about any innovations or “special cases” where AI narration can help with Audiobook production or sales?
Are AI Narrated Audiobooks Selling?
The short answer is NO.
It turns out that in 2023, resistance to AI narrated Audiobooks intensified. Audiobook listeners reported they weren’t likely to listen to AI generated audiobooks, even if the voice of the author was cloned.
Reviewing the presence of AI audiobooks in the marketplace, there are fewer than two thousand AI voiced audiobooks on the market, most with not great reviews, if any reviews at all.
For contrast, remember that 2700 books a DAY are published in the US alone.
Let’s call this initial reception to AI narrated Audiobooks “cool to lukewarm at best.” With all the buzz around AI in general throughout 2023, why didn’t AI Audiobooks perform well?
I’ll sum it up in one sentence.
NO ONE WANTS A ROBOT VOICE IN THEIR EARS FOR 4, 5, OR 8 HOURS.
This isn’t new. I interviewed a former long-time employee of Learning Ally, a respected and long-standing company devoted to providing accessible materials for children with learning differences, Michael Kinsey. Michael specializes in audio production and, in particular, Audiobooks. He’s also one of our Audiobook directors here at Twin Flames Studios.
“When text to speech came out, we wanted to use the technology to make more books available and accessible. The problem was, no one wanted to listen to a synthetic voice,” explained Kinsey.
“For example, we had a text to speech version of the book The Outsiders, which was taught in a lot of high school English classes for many years. Not very many students accessed it. But when we brought in a professional Audiobook Narrator to create a new version, suddenly the Audiobook version became one of our top titles. Students were listening to the Audiobook even when they didn’t have an assignment related to it.”
While the state of text to speech technology has come leaps and bounds in recent years, our ears and brains are discerning. When it comes to longer-form content like Audiobooks and podcasts, the numbers show that the technology isn’t good enough yet to replicate the nuance of the human voice.
Is it Cost Effective to Use AI for Audiobook Narration?
I keep hearing AI Audiobook narration being referred to as “cost effective.” That implies that you can get the job done for less and still reap the benefits. But if AI narrated Audiobooks aren’t selling well, we can’t call this a cost effective solution.
AI Audiobook Narration cost can range from free to about 5K per Audiobook. For the sake of comparison, our full Audiobook packages tend to range from 3-5K in either the case of author narration or professional narration.
This isn’t just about numbers; it’s about impact. Just think what those 250 people will accomplish by taking action in their lives, in their businesses, in their communities – because of what they learned as a result of your book.
If you go with one of the free options, you’re going to spend a considerable amount of time learning how to edit your Audiobook to get it to a finished product, and not even a finished product that would compare well with a human narrated audiobook.
Does the Technology for AI Audiobook Narration Really Work?
I do believe that at some point, AI audio will become pretty much indistinguishable from human voices. Since it’s not there yet though, here’s what we know is possible, based on research across Audiobook platforms and AI voice options.
1. AI audio narration voices are available in more than 25 different languages. HOWEVER, the translations are wildly inaccurate, particularly for long-form audio like an audiobook.
Want to know more about how inaccurate? Leave a comment on this post and if there’s enough interest, we’ll do a video demo!
Besides errors in translation from language to language, here are some other pitfalls of the current technology that it doesn’t handle well:
2. Dialects and diverse expressions
For example, one publisher of Judaic books noted to me that he had to abandon AI as a feasible option because AI can’t make the “Jewish” sounds denoted by Hebrew glottal [ʔ] (א) and [h] (ה), uvular [χ] (ח), and pharyngeal [ʕ] (ע).
3. Pronunciation issues and regionalisms
Getting AI to correctly pronounce names, or understand if you want the word “aunt” pronounced “ant” or “awnt,” or if you’re a Canadian author and want “process” pronounced “pro-cess” instead of “praw-cess,” is an exercise in frustration.
I could give you at least 50 examples of single words that have multiple pronunciations like the ones above.
4. Emotional nuance, pauses, and humor
We know from decades of sales data that what sells an Audiobook is the quality of the narration. The more a narrator, be they the author or a voice actor, feels like they’re right there with you and drawing you in, the better and more impactful the audiobook.
AI doesn’t know how to breathe, and lacks the natural cadence and pacing of human voices. This not only gives us that “uncanny valley” feeling when we listen, it also impacts the performance. AI doesn’t understand where nuanced pauses should go, or sometimes what words need to be emphasized. It definitely doesn’t understand jokes, irony, or sarcasm.
Imagine a romance novel where the narrator doesn’t understand longing, or desire…
Imagine a business book where you’re trying to learn something important, but the pauses aren’t in the right place, or the author meant something to be ironic and now you’re left feeling confused.
Our Senior Audiobook Director, Paul Stefano, has narrated many, MANY dozens of Audiobooks in his career, both fiction and nonfiction. Recently, he decided to license his voice to a reputable AI narration company, and they sent him a professionally edited audio sample of his AI voice clone. The voice clone was created from a recording of an audiobook that Paul owns the rights to, and this represents the best current technology in AI cloning that is easily accessible to the public.
Listen to both brief samples, and then imagine listening to each voice for 4, 6, 8, or 10 hours.
AI Narration Sample:
Natural Sample:
Will I Damage my Reputation by Using AI narration?
The Internet has a long memory. Back when The Gifts of Imperfection was originally published in 2010, Brene Brown’s publisher didn’t have her narrate the audiobook. In fact, the narrator wasn’t even close to Brene’s vocal style.
Things did not go well.
The book sold 3 million copies, but the audiobook did NOT.
One of the biggest requests that Brene had over the years was a version of that audiobook with her narrating, because Brene is highly known for her voice. She originally went viral via her TED Talk, she has podcasts, and her candor and combination of deep research and insight combined with a naturally enthusiastic “folksy” presence gives Brene a vocal thumbprint that is unmistakable.
What does this have to do with AI?
Well, if a highly produced Audiobook plus a professional, but ‘off the mark’ casted narrator hurt Brene’s Audiobook sales and ratings that much, just imagine what the reaction would be to an AI narrator.
When Brene released the 10th anniversary edition of The Gifts of Imperfection, she narrated a new version of the audiobook, and the ratings and reviews speak for themselves.
Not everyone is going to have Brene Brown’s level of notoriety and success, but she didn’t start out a multiple NYT bestseller. She was a college professor and researcher. If you are planning on being known for your voice as an expert, speaker, or industry leader, you need to cherish and cultivate your voice as a unique asset. If you’d like to get started with some exercises to help you develop your voice, here are some tools and resources for you.
What About Any Innovations or “Special Cases” Where AI Can Help with Audiobook Production or Marketing?
Yes, there are several places where AI is super helpful!
Overall, short-form content like social media is a good place for the current state of AI audio. We’re already used to hearing AI voices in social media on many viral reels, and this can save creators time and energy. Plus, if you’re not someone who loves being on camera, using an AI voiceover can work just fine for short content.
I personally love a good doggo voice over.
AI tools for promoting your Audiobook are becoming more abundant as well, which we love. I’m a fan of Vidyo.ai, which automatically edits longer video into clips for social media, blogs, etc.
PRO TIP: Convert your Audiobook files from .mp3 to .mp4 and get the AI to suggest short, interesting clips of your audiobook for promotional Videograms. You can also reach out to us to create these for you, they’re great for evergreen marketing campaigns, and cross promoting your articles, blogs posts, and newsletters with your audiobook.
And as a final thought, we’d love to see AI continue to evolve so that we could use it to make Audiobook edits. While an entire AI Audiobook narration is hard on our ears and brains, being able to replace some words using AI narration would be a great use of time, energy, and money for authors, narrators, and producers/publishers alike.
Audiobooks continue to sell at an accelerated rate, with double digit growth year on year for the last 12 years. They’re an enduring format, but what makes an Audiobook truly endure the test of time is the quality of narration. If you’re ready to create an Audiobook that you’re proud of for decades to come, contact us and let’s get your work into more ears and hearts.
Read and watch more Frequently Asked Questions about Audiobooks and benefit from our expertise, or Contact Us for more information and forthright advice about producing, distributing, and profiting from Audiobooks. Plus, download our Vocal Leadership Workout to develop and refine your the most influential tool you have — your voice!
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
About Tina Dietz:
Tina Dietz is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and vocal leadership expert whose work and shows have been featured on media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, The Wall Street Journal and Chicago Tribune, Inc.com, and Forbes. She’s been named one of the top podcasters for entrepreneurs by INC.com, and Tina’s company, Twin Flames Studios, re-imagines thought leadership through podcasting and audiobooks for experts, executives, and founders.
Leadership is no longer limited to a position or title. It’s a dynamic interaction that relies heavily on influence and compassion and goes beyond mere management and instruction. As industries evolve, the characteristics that make for successful leadership are changing, and the role of a leader is being redefined.
A leader’s influence includes authority over team members and the ability to inspire, motivate and guide them toward common goals. It’s about understanding individual team member’s unique strengths and needs and leveraging them to align with the organization’s vision.
Compassionate leadership adds another layer to this intricate balance. It recognizes the human side of business and knows that empathy, caring, and a genuine interest in the well-being of others can create a more positive and productive work environment. Combining influence and compassion in leadership goes beyond the traditional approach and paves the way for a more human and practical leadership style.
Building Influence in Leadership
Influence in leadership is an important trait that impacts how leaders manage their teams, interact with peers, and contribute to the organization’s success. Knowing how to cultivate and exercise influence is critical for seasoned professionals, especially those on the path from success to prominence.
Understanding influence
Influence isn’t just about wielding power or control; it’s also about knowing how to lead, inspire, and create positive change. It’s about being a role model, shaping opinions, and achieving results that align with the organization’s values and goals.
The importance of influence in leadership
Influence plays a critical role in leadership, helping to align teams around common goals, foster collaboration, build trust, and establish stable professional relationships. Effectively influencing others can make the difference between simple management and authentic leadership.
Methods for building influence
Building influence requires a combination of skills, behaviors, and strategies. These include clear communication, consistent action, integrity, active listening, and empathy. Building influence doesn’t happen overnight; it requires continuous effort, practice, and self-reflection.
Challenges in building influence
Like any complex skill, building influence has its challenges. These include overcoming skepticism, navigating organizational politics, or dealing with conflicting interests. To successfully build influence, it’s important to understand and prepare for these challenges.
Influence and ethical considerations
The use of influence must be based on ethical principles. This includes respecting the autonomy of others, being transparent, acting with integrity, and ensuring that influence is used for positive outcomes that align with company values.
Measure and evaluate influence
Measuring influence can be complex, but looking at results, feedback, team engagement, and alignment with business goals can provide valuable insights. Regular assessments and adjustments help to continually improve and build your influence.
Building influence is an essential component of effective leadership, including understanding, meaning, methods, challenges, ethics, and evaluation. Developing this capability helps leaders inspire teams, drive positive change, overcome challenges, and contribute to the organization’s overall success. This multi-faceted approach requires ongoing effort and commitment but is important for anyone seeking to build their authority and influence.
Compassionate Leadership
Compassionate Leadership is a philosophy that combines empathy, understanding, and genuine care for employees with the tasks and goals of the leader. In the following, we address the most important facets:
Understanding and empathy for employees
Actively listening to employees and being present is the essence of compassionate leadership. Understanding what your team members are saying, their challenges, and what they want and responding with empathy fosters a sense of appreciation and connection within the team.
Create a culture of well-being
Compassionate leaders value work-life balance and create an environment that promotes mental and physical health. They recognize the importance of well-being to overall performance and productivity and work proactively to create a positive atmosphere.
Recognition and appreciation
Recognizing and appreciating team members’ accomplishments is vital in compassionate leadership. Regular feedback, positive reinforcement, and celebrating successes large and small contribute to a strong sense of accomplishment and belonging.
Leading with authenticity and vulnerability
Authenticity in leadership fosters trust, and showing vulnerability makes leaders more approachable. Genuine interactions and a willingness to admit mistakes can build a deeper connection with team members and enhance the overall leadership experience.
Mentoring and supporting professional development
Compassionate leadership includes investing in personal development plans and providing opportunities and resources for success. These efforts demonstrate a genuine interest in individual success and professional development and align with the organization’s overall goals.
The far-reaching impact of compassionate leadership
Compassionate leadership impacts the workplace, community engagement, and organizational reputation. A compassionate approach often leads to long-term employee loyalty and contributes to the stability and success of the organization.
Compassionate leadership goes beyond mere management and recognizes that organizations are made up of people with individual needs and emotions. Compassionate leaders create an environment where individuals thrive by focusing on empathy, well-being, recognition, authenticity, and growth. This humane and effective approach fits perfectly with modern business values and can be a critical factor in a company’s success.
Practical tips for building influence through empathetic leadership
Building influence through empathetic leadership is a delicate balance that, when done right, can lead to remarkable results in an organization. Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman has been influential in understanding empathy in leadership (Goleman, D. 1995. “Emotional Intelligence.” New York: Bantam Books).
Here are some practical tips:
Build trust through transparency and integrity
Trust is the foundation of influence, and leaders can foster it through transparency and integrity. Honest communication and consistent action help employees feel safe and aligned with their leaders’ vision.
Empathy and connection with team members
Part of being an empathetic leader is understanding your team members and connecting with them personally. Leaders can create meaningful connections that increase their impact by showing genuine interest in their well-being and professional development.
Set clear goals and expectations
Clear goals and expectations help team members understand their roles and responsibilities. A shared vision promotes alignment and enables effective collaboration, strengthening the leader’s influence on the team.
Lead by example
Leaders who lead by example set a positive standard for the team. They demonstrate commitment and integrity by aligning with the team’s values and expectations, further strengthening their influence.
Promoting collaboration and open communication
Encouraging collaboration and open communication within the team creates a supportive environment where ideas can flourish. Leaders who actively engage with their teams foster creativity and problem-solving, key influence components.
Invest in professional development
Investing in team members’ professional development shows that the leader values their growth and success. Offering training and development opportunities can foster loyalty and engagement and strengthen the leader’s influence.
Meet challenges with empathy and determination
Meeting challenges with empathy and determination builds team resilience. Leaders who address problems with empathy and determination demonstrate strength and compassion, strengthening their influence.
Building influence through compassionate leadership is a multi-faceted approach that requires commitment, empathy, clarity, leading by example, collaboration, investment in growth, and resilience. By focusing on these practical tips, leaders can cultivate powerful influence that resonates with their teams and contributes positively to organizational success.
Wrapping it up
Leading through influence combined with the principles of compassionate leadership is a powerful paradigm for modern leadership. This article has shown that influence is about understanding, inspiring, and creating positive change. Compassion adds depth to this influence by recognizing the intrinsic value of people in the workplace and treating employees with empathy and care.
Experienced professionals will find practical strategies for integrating influence and compassion into their leadership style in this article. The path to success has many facets, from building trust and rapport with team members to setting clear goals and investing in professional development. It requires dedication, authenticity, empathy, and ethical consideration. Read The Speed of Trust by Stephen M.R. Covey (Covey, S.M.R. 2006. New York: Free Press) to learn more.
The fusion of influence and compassion creates an effective human leadership approach. It recognizes that people with individual needs, emotions, and aspirations drive organizations. Leaders who take these principles to heart can inspire their teams, drive innovation, foster long-term loyalty, and contribute positively to organizational success.
Even as the business world evolves, influence and compassionate leadership principles remain relevant. They are consistent with today’s values and timeless qualities for those seeking to build authority, influence, and prominence in their industry. By embodying these principles, leaders make themselves successful and contribute to a more empathetic and innovative business world.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
More About Chris O'Byrne
Chris O'Byrne is the CEO of JetLaunch Publishing and COO of the Strategic Advisor Board. He makes leaders influential by turning them into international bestselling authors and featuring them on the cover of Pivot, a leading business magazine that reaches over 30 million people.|
As we navigate the ever-evolving digital landscape, it's crucial to remember the significance of personal connection, especially in leadership roles.
After dedicating the past 18 years to teaching media training skills and presentation skills, I've come to realize that the essence of leadership is found in speaking – in connecting with people face-to-face, or in today's climate, virtually. Yes, we've adapted, we've embraced technology, but as leaders, we must not forget that at the heart of every interaction, there's a human need to connect.
The modern world presents a unique challenge: How do we maintain this essential human connection amidst the screens and devices that dominate our lives? The answer lies in understanding the power of speech in leadership and harnessing it effectively.
Speaking as a leader isn’t just about giving orders or delegating tasks. It’s about engaging people, sharing visions, inspiring actions, and fostering a spirit of teamwork. And achieving these goals requires mastering The Four Critical Levels of Being a Great Communicator: Understanding, Remembering, Action, and Passing on to Others. These stages serve as the foundation of impactful leadership speaking.
Understanding: The first step to effective communication is making sure your message is understood. This requires clear, concise language free from jargon or complicated concepts. As a leader, you need to deliver your message in a way that your team, clients, or audience can easily grasp. The clearer your message, the better the understanding, and the stronger the connection you can establish.
Remembering: A message that's understood but quickly forgotten will achieve little. To make your message stick, stories are invaluable. They weave a narrative around your message, turning it from mere information into a memorable journey. Remember, people may forget statistics or figures, but they rarely forget a compelling story.
Action: Great communication isn’t passive; it drives action. Once people understand and remember your message, they should feel motivated to act upon it. As a leader, your words should empower others, giving them the tools or knowledge they need to improve their lives or make a difference.
Passing on to Others: The ultimate level of communication is when your message is shared by those who heard it. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful forms of communication. When someone shares your message, it signifies a deep connection – they found your words impactful enough to pass on to others.
In a world where face-to-face interactions are increasingly being replaced by face-to-screen encounters, the need for leaders to effectively communicate and connect with others has never been more paramount. True leaders don’t just speak – they connect, inspire, and motivate. They use their words to create shared understanding, memorable narratives, actionable insights, and messages that resonate deeply enough to be passed on.
Here’s some good news…
We have more opportunities than ever to speak and connect. These include:
Podcasts: In an era where multimedia content is increasingly popular, starting your own podcast can be a great way to share your insights, experiences, and messages. Podcasts create a personal, intimate setting, allowing for more in-depth discussions and providing an opportunity to connect with your audience on a deeper level. They offer a unique space where you can share your stories, inspire action, and get your messages passed on.
Social Media Videos: Platforms such as Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and TikTok have become vital tools for modern leaders. Social media videos allow for dynamic, engaging communication. You can share short motivational messages, elaborate on complex ideas, or give behind-the-scenes glimpses into your leadership journey. These videos are easy to share, increasing the chances of your message being passed on and reaching a wider audience.
Webinars and Virtual Events: As we adapt to a more remote way of working, webinars and virtual events have become commonplace. These platforms offer an opportunity to reach larger, global audiences. They also allow for real-time interaction, Q&As, and instant feedback, helping you gauge understanding and tweak your communication strategies accordingly.
Communication Apps: Apps such as Slack, Microsoft Teams, or Zoom have revolutionized the way we connect with our teams and peers. These apps provide a space for both formal and informal communication, promoting transparency and fostering a sense of community.
Blogs and Articles: Writing blogs and articles for your own website or guest posting on other platforms is another way to connect. You can delve into subjects in more detail and leave a permanent resource for others to refer back to.
Online Courses and E-Learning Platforms: Sharing your expertise through online courses or e-learning platforms can help inspire action. You can educate your audience on a particular subject, provide them with the tools to make positive changes, and continue to foster their growth long after they've finished your course.
LinkedIn Live and Clubhouse: Platforms like LinkedIn Live and Clubhouse offer live audio and video broadcasting opportunities. They allow real-time conversations with audiences, which can lead to lively discussions, idea exchanges, and networking opportunities.
As leaders, it's our responsibility to bridge the digital divide and maintain the human connection that's so vital in our world today. By mastering these four levels of communication, we can transcend the boundaries of the screen and connect with people in meaningful, impactful ways. And in the process, we can redefine what it means to be a leader in the digital age.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
More About Jess Todtfeld
Jess Todtfeld is the President of Success in Media, one of the leading communication and media training authorities in the U.S. With more than 15 years as a media trainer and consultant, Todtfeld helps CEOs, business executives, spokespersons, public relations representatives, experts, and authors to become more confident, more in control, and to create more results from their speaking engagements and media appearances.
If you're like most thought leaders, you've spent time developing a course or program that you were beyond excited to share with the world. It checked all the boxes:
It answered every question your ideal client might have.
It solved a frustration or pain point your ideal client shared with you.
It aligned with your brand's core mission and values.
And you were SURE it would sell out in minutes.
…but when you announced your shiny new program or product…instead of sales, you heard the sound of crickets. OUCH. We have ALL been there.
Now, part of owning a business is taking risks. And while you can't eliminate every chance of disappointment that comes with running your business, you can lessen the risk of selling a whopping zero programs or products with a very simple (yet often ignored) tactic: testing your messaging.
Instead of spending too much time thinking about creating a new offer or program…
Or spending months (or years) developing an entire suite of programs and offers…
…today, we are excited to share our tried-and-true method that will allow you to assess whether your idea is perceived as genuinely transformative to your audience – instead of just assuming that it will be.
Growing an aligned audience excited to learn from you requires cultivating a community eager to receive your wisdom, support, and guidance.
If you want to cultivate an aligned audience of humans who are excited about you and your business, you need to take a hard look at three key things:
Your niche
Your voice
The Invitation
Once you master those three things, you'll find that selling your programs and products becomes more straightforward and practically effortless.
Know Your Niche
It's not enough to assume that you're “niched down” – you've got to go deep here because surface-level “knowing” is no longer enough.
While you can narrow your niche in many ways, you want to focus on the ways that will result in them being able to say, “OH, THAT IS ME,” followed by, “I BELONG HERE.”
And, no, targeting people based on their Netflix obsession or their passion for crocheting isn't going to work. You'll waste precious time focusing on these things.
Instead, please focus on the actions they would be taking before working with you.
Use Your Voice
Please note that this does not refer to your volume–and this is where using your Content Personality® makes a massive difference in the energy of how your message is received.
The internet is a loud place – and that's before we even take a peek at social media.
When we talk about using your voice, we're talking about communicating your mission-driven message using your Content Personality® so that your narrowed niche can hear you, get excited, and get on board with your solutions, values, and more.
That is how aligned community growth happens!
Invite Them to Join Your Community
You may have already discovered this, but it's not enough to “post and pray,” hoping your aligned audience will find you as if by magic.
Instead of just hoping, be tactical with your messaging – invite your audience to share your vision for a changed world. This type of “leaning in” allows others to see you as human and amplifies the need to spread your message.
Suppose you're determined to create a lasting impact on your business and spread your mission. In that case, you'll need to become highly committed to being visible (using your Content Personality®), so your aligned audience can get to know you and cultivate a relationship with you.
Growing an aligned audience is possible, but it takes time, dedication, and courage!
When you share your mission and services with your audience in a way that is genuinely aligned with all the parts that make you UNIQUE, you'll earn their trust and create invaluable relationships (which will make offering your fantastic, ground-breaking, life-changing programs and products much easier).
The thing about growing an engaged, aligned audience is that everyone you're connected to absorbs and processes your messaging at their own pace.
This naturally means that some of your audience isn't ready to buy…yet. As a business owner, it's important to realize (and accept) that if someone doesn't invest with you today, that does not mean they won't be ready to invest with you later (maybe tomorrow or next week!).
Don't assume that someone not clicking the “buy” button means they don't want to work with you – they may need to grow your relationship first.
But wouldn't it be nice to know if, next time, introducing your brilliant idea makes sense for where the majority of your audience is right now?
(Yes, yes, it would.)
Take Action
If you're ready to make an impact and share your vision for change, take some time to review those three key things that can make or break your next offer.
Ask yourself:
Your Niche: Am I niched down enough? Is the audience I'm speaking to engaging and interacting with me?
Your Voice: Am I communicating effectively so that the people who read or listen to or watch my messaging understand my point of view, values, and mission?
The Invitation: Have you given the humans who follow your content time to get to know you and grow into a trusting relationship that will naturally lead to them investing in your program or product?
If you don't score perfectly across the board, that's normal (and expected). Review some of your more popular posts, videos, or emails and note how you highlighted your niche, used your voice, and invited your audience to take action.
If you don't have any posts that seem popular, take a broad overview of your messaging and identify areas where you need to improve for clarity and understanding. A great place to start is by learning your natural Content Personality®, and lucky for you, we've created a simple, 3-minute (seriously) quiz to help you understand precisely what your Content Personality® is and how to best utilize your natural talents in your messaging.
What most surprised you, or what do you still want to know? Let us know your thoughts below!
More About M. Shannon Hernandez
M. Shannon Hernandez is ALL ABOUT THAT JOY in life and biz. She is specifically known around the globe for The Content Personality® Wheel and is the Founder of Joyful Business Revolution™, a business growth strategy and consultancy company that works with coaches, consultants, and service-based business owners. Shannon and her team specialize in organic mission-driven marketing and creative campaigns that help their clients grow aligned audiences and deepen community relationships, so they grow their business for GOOD, resulting in more joy, more time-off, and more profits with purpose.
We are all born with two voices: the one we speak with and the one that speaks to us inside. Our inner voice provides navigation through life, while our outer voice is the tool we use to guide, teach, influence, and help others. When our inner voice is aligned with our outer voice, true, authentic thought leadership comes forth.
While we can certainly argue the notion that we have many voices inside of us, (I’m the first person to admit that I have inner ‘board meetings’ sometimes with myself) the central premise here is that our communication becomes clear once we become more congruent and aligned with ourselves. We become more grounded and centered, and when we speak or write, that alignment comes through in all forms of our communication – vocal, physical, energetic, and in the words we choose.
You might have heard of Carl Jung’s 12 Archetypes, and how brands utilize them in marketing. According to Jung, the human psyche is predisposed to these archetypes and they are patterned into us inherently. Versions of these archetypes are found in storytelling across world cultures and through millenia.
We are always evolving our identity as thought leaders. By identifying our current primary and influencing archetypes, we give ourselves a space to check in with our inner and outer voices and ask ourselves:
Is my voice and message consistent?
Do my words and thoughts reflect what is authentic for me at this time?
Does my message feel forced or awkward, or fluid and easy?
Am I enjoying and excited about my own thought leadership, and the messages I’m putting out into the world?
Utilizing archetypes as a guide enriches our content development by giving a natural and psychologically congruent place to develop and express one’s communication style. In essence, when you communicate using your thought leadership archetypes as a guide, you are perceived as credible, trustworthy, and authentic.
Read on with a curious mind and discover the magic of thought leadership archetypes.
The Seekers: Innocent, Explorer, Sage
While there are 12 archetypes, each fall into a quadrant of similarity. The Seekers are a quadrant defined by a need for knowledge, freedom, and safety.
The Innocent is well known for their optimism. They have the ability to comfort others through their “glass half full” mentality. Innocents can simplify complex topics easily, recognize opportunities others may not see, and bring forth an inspirational perspective that carries a team through tough times. While they may be perceived as naive or in denial, the Innocent’s deep faith and trust in life keep them going.
The Explorer is the Indiana Jones of the workplace. Always looking to embark on the next adventure, the Explorer centers their thought leadership around the potential of unexplored avenues of inquiry, divergent thinking, and asking great questions that can lead to innovation. Explorers value autonomy and freedom over all else, which may lead them to feel trapped and easily bored.
The Sage is your quintessential thought leader. Sages are perceived as experts in a wide range of topics due to their love for learning, and therefore make excellent mentors, educators, and coaches. While they may not be the most charismatic, their ability to think critically and analyze data allows Sages to enjoy a high level of credibility amongst their colleagues and followers.
The Disruptors: Hero, Rebel, Magician
The Disruptors are those who leave a mark. They are courageous, provocative, and dynamic people who value liberation, power, and mastery.
The Hero inspires others with their stories of overcoming the odds and rising to challenges. They thrive in a competitive environment with a clear set of goals, and take pride in their dedication to their cause. However, this need to succeed may cause Heroes to disregard their personal wellbeing, as their strength comes not from themselves but who they are in the world.
The Rebel has the courage to challenge the status quo. A positive advocate for change, Rebels are admired for their ability to speak out against inefficient systems and comfortably live in the uncomfortable. Their high tolerance for risk allows them to throw out the old in favor of the new, even if their recklessness comes at a high price.
The Magician is a charismatic miracle-worker. They use their charm and creative intuition to bring the seemingly impossible into fruition, because Magicians love to make dreams come true. Their spot-on hunches and ability to influence their adversaries may cause others to doubt the credibility of Magicians. In the face of disbelief, Magicians return to themselves and spiritual guidance to carry on.
The Builders: Creator, Ruler, Caregiver
The Builders provide structure in an increasingly noisy world. They are creative, compassionate, and confident.
The Creator is powered by imagination. Their ability to see the final product in the raw material is what allows them to foster innovation and self-expression. Creators take an artful and individual approach to creative thinking and problem solving that motivates others to stretch themselves and see the creative solution. Like most artists and entrepreneurs, Creators have a flair for the dramatics and are prone to perfectionism in everything they do.
The Ruler is a natural-born leader who knows how to use power. They prefer to lead from within, utilizing their social organization prowess and networking skills to improve the world. They may be seen as domineering and tyrannical, but Rulers know when they should intervene with structure, rules, and decisions.
The Caregivers’ superpower is their empathy. Caregivers notice when others need help and support. They naturally foster peaceful and harmonious environments where all feel welcome and safe. While they tend to have poor boundaries, the Caregivers use their keen social intelligence to be the “glue” holding everything together.
The Connectors: Everyperson, Lover, Jester
The last quadrant of archetypes is the Connector. These are people who excel at connecting meaningfully with others in a fair, passionate, and funny way.
The Everyperson is a leader that’s hard to spot. They prefer to fit in with the crowd and be relatable, yet still inspire, advocate, and foster others like any other archetype does. This unique take on leadership comes from their steadfast belief in the equality of every person. They are loyal to humanity to a fault, and their realist approach to life may be mistaken as pessimism.
The Lover seeks real connection in their life. With their charismatic, engaging, and beautiful personalities, Lovers excel at creating lasting relationships that are meaningful and abundant. They know how to incorporate the romantic, the cherished, and the intimate into their personal branding from wearing their heart on their sleeves their whole lives.
And finally, The Jester is proof that life is but a stage. Jesters know how to effectively use humor and performance to promote change. They encourage others to laugh rather than cry and foster high morale amongst their team, effortlessly creating an environment where people want to work. Jesters put the fun back into boring presentations, meetings or brainstorming sessions, as long as they stay away from mean-spirited or self-indulgent jokes.
We are each a blend of archetypes to varying degrees. Sometimes connecting to a different archetype than our primary is just what you need to spice up your thought leadership. Which archetype, or blend of archetypes, do you resonate with the most?
At Twin Flames Studios, we’re developing a more powerful assessment (releasing later this year) to support you, your voice, and messaging of your thought leadership archetypes.
If you don’t want to wait to discover more about using your Thought Leadership Archetypes, meet with us to discuss how we can deepen your presence and grow your business and message with your voice.
Inspired to turn your Voice into influence and become a Thought Leader worth listening to?
Did you know one of the most powerful ways you can connect with your clients is through podcasting? You can learn more about the benefits of podcasting, what questions you need to answer before you begin your podcast, and how Twin Flames Studios helps get your voice into more ears on my guest interview with Bruce Eckfeldt on the Scaling Up Services podcast.(Scaling Up Services Podcast with Bruce Eckfeldt, October 2021)
Tina spoke with Bruce Eckfeldt on the Scaling Up Services podcast to discuss how podcasts hone your brand, provide evergreen marketing content, and create deeper relationships.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why audio is one of the most intimate mediums for storytelling
The top questions to ask before you start your podcast
How podcasts can revitalize your marketing and expand your reach
Bruce Eckfeldt Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier? Check out Thrive Roundtable. Thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community. Created by Inc. award-winning CEO and certified Scaling Up Business coach, Bruce Eckfeldt, Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For details on the program, visit eckfeldt.com/thrive.
Welcome, everyone. This is Scaling Up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. Our guest today isTina Dietz. She is the founder at Twin Flames Studios. We're going to talk to her about the work that she does with companies helping them with creating content, with promotion. This is a really kind of interesting topic. I think so many service companies based their marketing, based their sales and lead development, based on thought leadership and getting content out in the world. And there's so many different types of content and so many different ways you can do it. I really think they–obviously I love podcasting–but you know, podcasts, audiobooks, you know, spoken word kind of content, there's so many things you can do with it. There's so many things you can use to generate awareness, generate thought leadership, generate leads. I'm excited for this and excited to hear Tina’s story and how she got into this this world of audio content production and what she's been doing with service companies. So, with that, Tina, welcome to the program.
Tina DietzHey, Bruce, thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure having you on. So before we dive into what you're doing with Twin Flames right now and stuff, why don't we talk a little bit about you and get a sense of your background? Give us the story. What was your professional journey? And how did you get into what you're doing today?
Well, like most entrepreneurs, it's fairly stupid. It's just like, “Well, how the hell did this happen?” Yeah, yeah. And that's, and that's what we hear more than everything. If you had asked me, you know, when I was growing up, if, you know, in 25 years or whatever, you're going to own a company that produces audio content in the land of thought leadership for service-based companies. I'm sorry, what? What, what? It didn't even exist, right? You know, at the time?
So my upbringing was I had a younger sibling–that was a business. My parents owned a business that they started when I was three years old. It was my younger sibling, and I hated it. It was a wood burning stove and fireplace business. So real sexy, awesome. And basically, that was my constant companion growing up. So I was steeped like a tea bag in entrepreneurship. From a very young age, I started answering phones when I was four and going to trade shows when I was six, I do a whole talk will have to do another time maybe on how I found my purpose in life through the Ginsu knife demonstration at a local fair. So that’s a whole thing, that's the whole thing. And, you know, I never really thought I'd own a business, but I became a therapist–for a number of reasons. Childhood was not a great place. But you know, lessons learned. It's one of those things. And I've spent a lot of time in the world of personal development, in leadership and all of that. So cultivating myself, of course, created in me a desire to see what else could be done for other people.
That led me to coaching and consulting, which then ended up leading me to podcasting and ultimately to audio production. Basically, through a paid hobby I had as a voice actor. You know, I'm an entrepreneur, we can't have regular hobbies, we have to have hobbies that pay us. That's the way it works. We can't have normal hobbies. So I was a voice actor on the side and taking some classes and masterclasses in audiobook narration. And I had this chocolate and peanut butter moment, this light bulb, aha, that, “Oh, my God, why aren't all my clients and colleagues who are doing best selling campaigns and producing books, why aren't they doing audiobooks?” And that was, as Michael Gerber from The E Myth says, you know, my “entrepreneurial seizure” that led me to investigate the world of audio and led me to a big gap in the market and dove into that.
I took over my business within a year of starting to offer services in this big market gap of done-for-you audiobooks, and also the corporate side of podcasting. And that is kind of was the best decision that I ever made. And so I went from basically being a solopreneur, consultant who'd worked with more than 20 industries in eight countries to being the CEO of a company that now produces content in the land of audio that changes lives and hearts and minds for service-based companies and making sure that they're having this beautiful, human, authentic voice of their company that comes through this medium of audio.
Yeah, I'm curious. You've had a couple of different kind of pivots in your commercial world and career what are some of the things that you had to learn or had to kind of change about your thinking, your leadership, your approach during those pivots?
Bruce, I thought you said this was only a half hour podcast.
The top two. Just the top two.
The top two. One: choose who gets in your ear very carefully, very carefully. I'm very much of a happy puppy kind of person. I'm just like, “Yeah, let's do it. Let's change the world. Let's make it happen.” I have a lot of enthusiasm and energy and kind of that visionary habit–you see something and you want to make it happen. And it took me a long time to really learn how to vet the people that I was working with, or who I was throwing in with, because I assumed for a long time, in a very naive way, that everyone had the same values that I did around integrity and communication, and, you know, working together and making sure everybody wins. And it doesn't always work that day. Most people, most people, 99% of people on the planet are doing their best. But you know, problems and challenges that come up, don't always bring out the best in people. Sometimes it brings out the worst in people. And so learning how to create relationships over time and cultivate those relationships carefully has been a huge game changer in my world to keep things consistent and growing in the right direction.
And the other piece of the puzzle has been, you know, doing my own inner work. I'd say all the time that we were born with two voices: the voice you speak with and the voice that speaks to you. And working on the voice that speaks to me has made the biggest difference in anything that I've done as a leader, as a business owner, as a partner, a wife, a mom, you know, on any of that, to cultivate that inner world–and I could do many, many, many hours, and all the things that have happened there. But suffice to say it's been a journey.
That's a really great, that's a great realization. And yeah, I think it's, you know, time is your most precious commodity and where you spend it, you know, how you spend it, who you spend it with, are all kinds of things that are really going to influence your success and what you end up doing. Tell me a little bit about kind of why audio content? I mean, what's your kind of take on the world? You know, that we're in today? Why is audio content so powerful, so important? Why have you chosen to focus on it?
Well, going back to what I said a moment ago about our internet, our voices, it's something every human being on the planet is born with. And it's something that cannot be taken away. And speaking, as someone who has felt in the past that my voice was taken away and was suppressed, having that voice and having a place at the table to have that voice heard, is incredibly valuable. And so, everything that I have done, and what we do as a company with Twin Flames, is designed to give people a place at the table so that their voices are heard. And then it creates this incredible ripple effect that you know, podcasts and audiobooks are some of the lowest hanging fruit on the planet for people to start changing their lives.
If we can be a part of more leadership voices and more positive voices and more great information, reaching people all over the world, so that they can start to change their lives. That is a really powerful place to be. It is really about making the world a better place one kind of drip of audio at a time. And audio is very, very, very intimate compared to most other forms of media. It's single focus. Most people listen to audio right into their ear. So there is a neurological connection that's very powerful between, you know, the earbud I have in my ear, and the center of my brain, the amygdala, the hippocampus, all of those things. It's not just higher brain functions being impacted by the voice. And so there's an intimacy created in an impact that's really important. And storytelling, of course, is incredibly powerful worldwide. It's something that connects all of humanity. So when we bring all these factors together, neurological, you know, storytelling, how we're wired, the universal power of the human voice to create relationship–it's a very, very powerful medium. And it can be used in so many different ways and sliced and diced, and at the pace we're living at, you know, audio is the most portable form of media. You can listen when you can't read you can listen when you can't watch. So you know, it's never gone away. It's never going to go away. And all of those things together make it what I consider the perfect storm for perfect content.
Yeah, I was like that idea that audio content literally gets you in your prospect’s head.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got it.
So what are all the kinds of formats these days? I mean, we kind of went from you know, I date myself accidentally when I say I'm listening to a book on tape or something.
I know, right? Me too.
It's morphed so many times, like what is your kind of how do you kind of lay out the scope or the types of audio content that that you have at your disposal these days?
Well, we usually start with a primary form of content, which is generally a podcast. Podcasting, of course, is something that is hot right now. I’m on one as we speak, and it provides a nice bulk of content to start with, and a framework to start with. So unlike a video, the average video watcher will watch two minutes, but the average podcast listener will listen for 40 minutes.
And it's actually much harder to create short form content than it is slightly longer form content. We have thoughts, you know, curating what we say, you know, the brevity or like cutting things down to its core is much more challenging than this kind of a conversational format. And so, it allows people to be very natural, and very expansive in what they're talking about to dig into nitty gritty and to know that the listener is still going to be interested more than two minutes in, so you're not trying to pack things in. So we start with a longer form 20-30 minute podcast, usually sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, but that's on average what it is. And that gives us a lovely bulk of content to work with.
From there, there's all different ways to slice and dice that type of content, repurpose it, reuse it. And the authenticity that comes through when you're using audio and using this type of format is really important to reach people on a deeper basis, rather than just an informational basis.
Yeah. And when you look at companies, what are I guess, what are some of the companies or situations that are best served with audio content? Like who can really benefit from this form of content?
Well, we love working with relationship-focused, service-based companies. People who, when they're working with their clients, they have long-term relationships with their clients. For example, companies, which seem very dry, but there's a lot of content available in the financial world, in insurance, for example, education of varying kinds, and even things like retail, retail conglomerates, and things like that, that are creating more experiences. Travel can be served in this way, as well, although it does, definitely does need to be paired with the visual aspect as well. But it can be really, really, really beautiful. You will see a lot of influencer podcasting, that's generally not our super cup of tea.
We do a lot of work in the leadership space, though, helping to humanize brands that are large, and give the brand an avatar because we don't really do business with faceless, nameless corporations. We want to do business with people. So being able to communicate brand values and culture and leadership and innovation through the avatar of a podcast host is extremely powerful. Another industry that benefits a lot from podcasting is healthcare. And all of these have constraints with compliance and communication and legal and all of that. But we're able to navigate all of those waters, as well.
Yeah, yeah. So what are some of the other challenges? If you are interested in developing audio content? Like what do you need to kind of consider or think about setup?
The lift is largely at the beginning when you're–well with any type of content, right, so you have to decide that has enough value that you're going to spend the brain capacity and the bandwidth and the time to work with a company like ours, so that we can help you shape that voice and shape the type of content that's really going to benefit you. So choosing that it's going to be a priority.
And then having deep, intimate communication and regular awesome content are things that you really want to do, you also need to decide in terms of you know–and we work with our companies on this–like who's going to be hosting, who's your avatar, who's your people or person that you're going to be featuring. And there's a lot of creative ways to work with that scenario, as well. Everything from solo hosts to two hosts to a panel discussion and everything in between. There's, there's a lot of different ways to manage those kinds of questions, particularly if there's multiple people inside of a company who want to be at the forefront being that avatar for the company, that's all completely manageable.
Another thing the company really needs to decide is if their marketing department, and their team, how we're going to dovetail this with their other strategic initiatives. Podcasting should be one piece and audio should be a piece of a larger strategic picture for a company. It should never be a band-aid or just an outlier. It needs to be integrated because it is something that has high strategic value, and can augment or replace creating content in other areas like blog posts, social media post images, articles for industry publications, and even events and getting used in events in different ways. So, there's a lot of applications and being willing to dive into the strategy is super important.
And what goes into that strategy? What questions are you asking or what do companies need to think about, you know, in terms of understanding kind of the bigger picture strategy before they really get into, you know, executing a particular kind of audio content strategy?
Yeah, we like to get into working with their marketing team. and finding out what are their core values that they're looking to communicate. What is that mission? What is their vision for their company, and then building out kind of an avatar of their host, not of their audience, but of their host. You know, if you had to personify your company, who is kind of that person and that spokesperson to do that? That's certainly an area that we start with, we also need to look at, as I mentioned, their current strategic initiatives. What's already working for them in terms of their marketing? How can podcasting build upon that and make it even more robust? And what are their pain points that we can address that are challenging?
So one of the pain points we run into a lot with companies is just the generation of content to begin with, particularly from a very busy team. A larger company, you know, when you ask somebody to go and say, “Hey, would you write a blog post on this?” somebody who's a technician or a salesperson or whatever, they may not be a writer to do that. Using interview techniques, we can extract and pull really wonderful, real conversational information from team members that can be pulled into podcasting content, or then even turned into articles or ebooks or, you know, other types of content, as well. And the creation process becomes 100 times easier. And this is, of course, scalable for any size company to do that, whether we're working with a sales team, or we're working with, you know, a CPA firm.
Yeah. You mentioned a couple times the idea of leveraging the content, what are some ways that you can kind of use the, the initial content, leverage it in different ways? You know, repurpose it. What are some things that companies should be thinking about when they develop a kind of a content strategy, starting with audio content?
Sure, I'll kind of walk you through a whole process, potential process flow on that. So let's say your podcast gets made, and the audio content is going out to 20-30 different audio distribution platforms, everything from Spotify to Apple podcasts and whatnot. So it lives all out in the world of public podcasting. Well, then the full edited transcript of that podcast, along with an embedded player, which has a number of features on it that are really helpful for the listener, click to tweets, and custom captioned images are all embedded on the website, usually in the form of a blog post. So we have, first, fresh content that goes into your blog.
And secondly, this is all gorgeous for your search engine optimization. Google loves fresh, long form conversational content, because Google is moving towards AI for their search engine optimization. This longer form conversational podcast content is so helpful for SEO, particularly with all the bells and whistles to kind of go along with it. So, from there, you can take the we have always have a little summary at the top and we have our quotes that are pulled out. Those are repurposed into social media posts, usually either on say a company page on LinkedIn that are then shared with the employees, shared with the team so that then they all can share those posts as well.
We also pull out short clips, little highlights from the podcast and turn them into what are called audiograms, which are little shareable, closed-caption dynamic videos. Those are also shared on social media. And one of my other favorite places to use audiograms is to embed them in related blog posts on the site that aren't necessarily the podcast episode, but maybe related content. So then you are cross-pollinating your website content and also creating a more dynamic experience for somebody visiting your website, because now you've got this lovely little 30-second to one minute long video that's breaking up the content on a related post and maybe getting people interested in staying on your website longer. Yeah, so those are just a few of the things that you can do.
We even recommend that whoever is the guest on the podcast, or even the host, depending on the situation, repurpose the link to their podcast on the publication section of their LinkedIn profile. A lot of people only use articles or blog posts, but you can use your podcast interviews as part of your publications list. And that helps build out, of course, your LinkedIn presence. For those folks of us who are in the B2B world or in the, you know, the business world. It's really nice to have that additional fresh content on your LinkedIn profile to kind of keep you top of mind for people.
So those are just a couple. Those are just a couple elements. And the other big one we see a lot of is turning podcast content into industry publication articles. So basically having writers–either folks we've introduced you to, or folks on their team. One of our companies that we work with primary tax solutions, they're a specialty tax company, and they've now had six articles based on their podcasts–content produced and published in publications like Accounting Today.
Yeah, I love that idea is like you create one piece and then you can find lots of different ways. Oh, my goodness repurposing it makes it so much easier or just create so much more leverage in terms of the work you do. What are some of the challenges? Certainly, when I started podcasting, you know, it wasn't, there was some hesitation and trepidation about kind of really getting into this and putting myself out there like that. What do you do to help folks who, you know, are considering this, but they're not quite sure they have maybe some, you know, maybe a little bit of fear around some of this stuff. You know, creating this content, really putting it out there–what are ways in which you help them kind of evaluate and create an opportunity for them to really get into this space?
It really just, it lives in the world of conversation. So, Bruce, would it be accurate to say that, you know, one of your big considerations was time?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. And that's really the biggest thing we have to talk about is, where are your priorities, and where is your time going to be, because even if we're handling 90% of what has to go into the podcast production, we're still going to need, you know, some time for the marketing team and of course, the host and things like that to spend some time in that arena. So it just really has to be a priority, and they need to be well suited. So there's a lot of evaluation that goes on at the beginning, everything from talking about, like I said, the creation of kind of this avatar. We even use thought leadership archetypes that we have developed based on the 12 Jungian archetypes to help kind of shape the brand of the podcast in conjunction with the company's brand to make sure that there's this consistent voice.
So everything that we do really lives in relationship and inquiry and curiosity. And and then from there, the strategy, but we come at it–I would say that, you know, a lot of times I'm practicing my “Business Buddha” and that means I come from a place of non-attachment. It really has to be all about the clients and not about us and seeing what's going to be best. And sometimes it's not the best solution for that company, or it's not the right time. Sometimes it's the absolute perfect time, and the company is absolutely 100% ready to go. Sometimes there's a little bit of a delay until a few ducks get in a row and we say, “Hey, you know, you really should have X, Y, and Z handled before we start this process.” So it always has to be in the best interest of the company, so that we can get the best product, because, as you know, Bruce, podcasting isn't a one and done deal. It's a long tail game. Yeah, you know, so we got to have time.
Yeah, no, let's dig into that just a little bit. ‘Cause I find I see a lot of podcasts out there that get to like episode eight.
Yeah.
You know, big plans, big ideas, and then, you know, just, you know, a big initial push, but, they just kind of fade quickly. What are some things that can help you to prevent that or will help you, you know, kind of be in it for the long game?
Well, most of our companies, we recommend starting with a bi-weekly schedule, instead of a weekly schedule. You can always add episodes. You can always add frequency as you go. But bi-weekly gives enough frequency for folks to really get content out on a regular basis without it necessarily being an overwhelming time commitment. We also work to develop out the content calendar, and make sure that we've actually got, you know, 12 or 24 potential episodes kind of planned out. And then many times we're helping with, you know, getting the guests on. You know, let's look at your networking list. Who do you want to have on and how can we help you facilitate that communication, the guest preparation and making the actual recording process as easy as possible for folks? You know, you and I both use an interface that's very easy to get on. You're using was it Tricast here. Is that what we're both on?
Yeah.
So Tricast, Squadcast, Riverside FM–there's a bunch of them that really helped make the recording process very high quality and very easy, no matter who you are, where you are, as long as you've got a relatively decent internet connection. Yeah, and we help facilitate those with live direction, sometimes, helping people actually kind of feel comfortable, relax them. We do episode preparation sometimes and actually create the outlines for episodes for companies and working with their marketing team to make it easier for them to just have a nice flow of every episode. And of course, any kind of host or guest training when it comes down to the actual vocal or interview side of things. It's really a matter of finding out what are the needs, what are the desires, and creating the right solutions to fill it. There's no cookie cutter solution.
Yeah. And are most of your clients looking to develop leads for like a lead funnel or what are the outcomes that sort of the tangible business outcomes that you're typically focused on with clients?
The tangible outcomes that clients are usually looking to focus on are multifold. Podcasting of this particular kind is a beautiful combination of relationship marketing, influence marketing, and content marketing. So we're looking to have guests chosen strategically that are not necessarily leads for their company–there's a whole philosophy of podcasting that you interview people you want to have as clients. That's not really where we live. The companies that we work with are well-established. They're doing very, very well in their fields. And this is really a move from having a brand to becoming thought leaders in an industry. So it has more to do with influence and high quality content than it does with directly getting leads.
But that being said, it usually–well, actually, it always–it always ends up in developing leads, because collaborations come out of the guests that you have on the show, out of the visibility that you have, out of the elevation in the industry of now becoming a media presence, all of those things happen, and it is largely because podcasting opens doors when it comes to relationships. You know, our clients are always looking to have high quality guests on their show, and then following up with those guests afterwards to help deepen that relationship and develop collaboration inevitably adds leads to additional opportunities and more leads 100% of the time.
Yeah. And what recommendations do you have for folks in terms of kind of picking subjects, things that you're going to weave into your conversations, finding guests? I mean, how do you go from, “Hey, I want to start a podcast, I want to, you know, have these sort of business outcomes,” to actually getting things scheduled and figuring out what you're going to talk about?
Oh, okay, that's a big world. So let's break it down just into a couple of first steps. One is to look at your values. What do you want to be known for? You know, who are you in in the world? What does your company want to be known for? And what are your brand values, the pillars that you operate by that you want to make sure it get communicated out to an audience?
Then there's a little bit of a Venn diagram. You've got your brand values and your culture, and then you have what you're really good at, you know, what's your areas of focus, and you're going to overlap those two areas on each other. And then the third area that you're going to your trifecta, a little three circle Venn diagram is going to be how do you want to communicate it?
So when you're talking about podcasting, you have to have somebody on your team who's got a proclivity towards a microphone. In some way, shape or form, they have to have a desire for it. Because otherwise you're going to end up you know, like, like Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. “Bueller, Bueller? Bueller?” It's got to be dynamic, right? You somebody who is inclined. So that you know, so then you got your format of your show. So you've got those three pieces that you want overlap to find kind of your sweet spot in podcasting. And I will say, that's where you start. Podcasting is one of those things, just like I hate to say it, a website. That is, you're always evolving over time, and you're going to have seasons. You're going to have segments, you're going to evolve it over time. So you got to start with where you're most comfortable and most seasoned in your expertise, and then you're going to evolve and grow it from there.
Tina, this has been a pleasure if people want to find out more about you about the work that you do, what's the best way to get that information?
You can just hop over to twinflamesstudios.com and we are there. There's samples of our work. You can reach us there and we're happy to connect with you and explore, no matter where you're at in the process.
That's great. I will make sure that all the links are in the show notes here. Tina, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time today.
Thank you, Bruce.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. Be sure to subscribe using your favorite podcast app, so you don't miss our future episodes. See you next time.
About Scaling Up ServicesScaling Up Services is a podcast devoted to helping founders, partners, CEOs, key executives, and managers of service-based businesses scale their companies faster and with less drama. For more information and a list of recent episodes, please visit www.scalingupservices.com.
About Eckfeldt & AssociatesEckfeldt & Associates is a strategic coaching and advisory firm based in New York City and servicing growth companies around the world. Founded and led by Inc. 500 CEO Bruce Eckfeldt, E&A helps founders, CEOs, and leadership teams develop highly differentiated business strategies and create high-performance leadership teams who can execute with focus and rigor. Leveraging the Scaling Up, 3HAG, and Predictive Index toolsets, the firm has worked with a wide range of dynamic industries including technology, professional services, real estate, healthcare, pharmaceutical, and cannabis/hemp. For more information, please visit www.eckfeldt.com or email at info@eckfeldt.com.
Did you know one of the most powerful ways you can connect with your clients is through podcasting? You can learn more about the benefits of podcasting, what questions you need to answer before you begin your podcast, and how Twin Flames Studios helps get your voice into more ears on my guest interview with Bruce Eckfeldt on the Scaling Up Services podcast.(Scaling Up Services Podcast with Bruce Eckfeldt, October 2021)
Tina spoke with Bruce Eckfeldt on the Scaling Up Services podcast to discuss how podcasts hone your brand, provide evergreen marketing content, and create deeper relationships.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why audio is one of the most intimate mediums for storytelling
The top questions to ask before you start your podcast
How podcasts can revitalize your marketing and expand your reach
Bruce Eckfeldt Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier? Check out Thrive Roundtable. Thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community. Created by Inc. award-winning CEO and certified Scaling Up Business coach, Bruce Eckfeldt, Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For details on the program, visit eckfeldt.com/thrive.
Welcome, everyone. This is Scaling Up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. Our guest today isTina Dietz. She is the founder at Twin Flames Studios. We're going to talk to her about the work that she does with companies helping them with creating content, with promotion. This is a really kind of interesting topic. I think so many service companies based their marketing, based their sales and lead development, based on thought leadership and getting content out in the world. And there's so many different types of content and so many different ways you can do it. I really think they–obviously I love podcasting–but you know, podcasts, audiobooks, you know, spoken word kind of content, there's so many things you can do with it. There's so many things you can use to generate awareness, generate thought leadership, generate leads. I'm excited for this and excited to hear Tina’s story and how she got into this this world of audio content production and what she's been doing with service companies. So, with that, Tina, welcome to the program.
Tina DietzHey, Bruce, thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure having you on. So before we dive into what you're doing with Twin Flames right now and stuff, why don't we talk a little bit about you and get a sense of your background? Give us the story. What was your professional journey? And how did you get into what you're doing today?
Well, like most entrepreneurs, it's fairly stupid. It's just like, “Well, how the hell did this happen?” Yeah, yeah. And that's, and that's what we hear more than everything. If you had asked me, you know, when I was growing up, if, you know, in 25 years or whatever, you're going to own a company that produces audio content in the land of thought leadership for service-based companies. I'm sorry, what? What, what? It didn't even exist, right? You know, at the time?
So my upbringing was I had a younger sibling–that was a business. My parents owned a business that they started when I was three years old. It was my younger sibling, and I hated it. It was a wood burning stove and fireplace business. So real sexy, awesome. And basically, that was my constant companion growing up. So I was steeped like a tea bag in entrepreneurship. From a very young age, I started answering phones when I was four and going to trade shows when I was six, I do a whole talk will have to do another time maybe on how I found my purpose in life through the Ginsu knife demonstration at a local fair. So that’s a whole thing, that's the whole thing. And, you know, I never really thought I'd own a business, but I became a therapist–for a number of reasons. Childhood was not a great place. But you know, lessons learned. It's one of those things. And I've spent a lot of time in the world of personal development, in leadership and all of that. So cultivating myself, of course, created in me a desire to see what else could be done for other people.
That led me to coaching and consulting, which then ended up leading me to podcasting and ultimately to audio production. Basically, through a paid hobby I had as a voice actor. You know, I'm an entrepreneur, we can't have regular hobbies, we have to have hobbies that pay us. That's the way it works. We can't have normal hobbies. So I was a voice actor on the side and taking some classes and masterclasses in audiobook narration. And I had this chocolate and peanut butter moment, this light bulb, aha, that, “Oh, my God, why aren't all my clients and colleagues who are doing best selling campaigns and producing books, why aren't they doing audiobooks?” And that was, as Michael Gerber from The E Myth says, you know, my “entrepreneurial seizure” that led me to investigate the world of audio and led me to a big gap in the market and dove into that.
I took over my business within a year of starting to offer services in this big market gap of done-for-you audiobooks, and also the corporate side of podcasting. And that is kind of was the best decision that I ever made. And so I went from basically being a solopreneur, consultant who'd worked with more than 20 industries in eight countries to being the CEO of a company that now produces content in the land of audio that changes lives and hearts and minds for service-based companies and making sure that they're having this beautiful, human, authentic voice of their company that comes through this medium of audio.
Yeah, I'm curious. You've had a couple of different kind of pivots in your commercial world and career what are some of the things that you had to learn or had to kind of change about your thinking, your leadership, your approach during those pivots?
Bruce, I thought you said this was only a half hour podcast.
The top two. Just the top two.
The top two. One: choose who gets in your ear very carefully, very carefully. I'm very much of a happy puppy kind of person. I'm just like, “Yeah, let's do it. Let's change the world. Let's make it happen.” I have a lot of enthusiasm and energy and kind of that visionary habit–you see something and you want to make it happen. And it took me a long time to really learn how to vet the people that I was working with, or who I was throwing in with, because I assumed for a long time, in a very naive way, that everyone had the same values that I did around integrity and communication, and, you know, working together and making sure everybody wins. And it doesn't always work that day. Most people, most people, 99% of people on the planet are doing their best. But you know, problems and challenges that come up, don't always bring out the best in people. Sometimes it brings out the worst in people. And so learning how to create relationships over time and cultivate those relationships carefully has been a huge game changer in my world to keep things consistent and growing in the right direction.
And the other piece of the puzzle has been, you know, doing my own inner work. I'd say all the time that we were born with two voices: the voice you speak with and the voice that speaks to you. And working on the voice that speaks to me has made the biggest difference in anything that I've done as a leader, as a business owner, as a partner, a wife, a mom, you know, on any of that, to cultivate that inner world–and I could do many, many, many hours, and all the things that have happened there. But suffice to say it's been a journey.
That's a really great, that's a great realization. And yeah, I think it's, you know, time is your most precious commodity and where you spend it, you know, how you spend it, who you spend it with, are all kinds of things that are really going to influence your success and what you end up doing. Tell me a little bit about kind of why audio content? I mean, what's your kind of take on the world? You know, that we're in today? Why is audio content so powerful, so important? Why have you chosen to focus on it?
Well, going back to what I said a moment ago about our internet, our voices, it's something every human being on the planet is born with. And it's something that cannot be taken away. And speaking, as someone who has felt in the past that my voice was taken away and was suppressed, having that voice and having a place at the table to have that voice heard, is incredibly valuable. And so, everything that I have done, and what we do as a company with Twin Flames, is designed to give people a place at the table so that their voices are heard. And then it creates this incredible ripple effect that you know, podcasts and audiobooks are some of the lowest hanging fruit on the planet for people to start changing their lives.
If we can be a part of more leadership voices and more positive voices and more great information, reaching people all over the world, so that they can start to change their lives. That is a really powerful place to be. It is really about making the world a better place one kind of drip of audio at a time. And audio is very, very, very intimate compared to most other forms of media. It's single focus. Most people listen to audio right into their ear. So there is a neurological connection that's very powerful between, you know, the earbud I have in my ear, and the center of my brain, the amygdala, the hippocampus, all of those things. It's not just higher brain functions being impacted by the voice. And so there's an intimacy created in an impact that's really important. And storytelling, of course, is incredibly powerful worldwide. It's something that connects all of humanity. So when we bring all these factors together, neurological, you know, storytelling, how we're wired, the universal power of the human voice to create relationship–it's a very, very powerful medium. And it can be used in so many different ways and sliced and diced, and at the pace we're living at, you know, audio is the most portable form of media. You can listen when you can't read you can listen when you can't watch. So you know, it's never gone away. It's never going to go away. And all of those things together make it what I consider the perfect storm for perfect content.
Yeah, I was like that idea that audio content literally gets you in your prospect’s head.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got it.
So what are all the kinds of formats these days? I mean, we kind of went from you know, I date myself accidentally when I say I'm listening to a book on tape or something.
I know, right? Me too.
It's morphed so many times, like what is your kind of how do you kind of lay out the scope or the types of audio content that that you have at your disposal these days?
Well, we usually start with a primary form of content, which is generally a podcast. Podcasting, of course, is something that is hot right now. I’m on one as we speak, and it provides a nice bulk of content to start with, and a framework to start with. So unlike a video, the average video watcher will watch two minutes, but the average podcast listener will listen for 40 minutes.
And it's actually much harder to create short form content than it is slightly longer form content. We have thoughts, you know, curating what we say, you know, the brevity or like cutting things down to its core is much more challenging than this kind of a conversational format. And so, it allows people to be very natural, and very expansive in what they're talking about to dig into nitty gritty and to know that the listener is still going to be interested more than two minutes in, so you're not trying to pack things in. So we start with a longer form 20-30 minute podcast, usually sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, but that's on average what it is. And that gives us a lovely bulk of content to work with.
From there, there's all different ways to slice and dice that type of content, repurpose it, reuse it. And the authenticity that comes through when you're using audio and using this type of format is really important to reach people on a deeper basis, rather than just an informational basis.
Yeah. And when you look at companies, what are I guess, what are some of the companies or situations that are best served with audio content? Like who can really benefit from this form of content?
Well, we love working with relationship-focused, service-based companies. People who, when they're working with their clients, they have long-term relationships with their clients. For example, companies, which seem very dry, but there's a lot of content available in the financial world, in insurance, for example, education of varying kinds, and even things like retail, retail conglomerates, and things like that, that are creating more experiences. Travel can be served in this way, as well, although it does, definitely does need to be paired with the visual aspect as well. But it can be really, really, really beautiful. You will see a lot of influencer podcasting, that's generally not our super cup of tea.
We do a lot of work in the leadership space, though, helping to humanize brands that are large, and give the brand an avatar because we don't really do business with faceless, nameless corporations. We want to do business with people. So being able to communicate brand values and culture and leadership and innovation through the avatar of a podcast host is extremely powerful. Another industry that benefits a lot from podcasting is healthcare. And all of these have constraints with compliance and communication and legal and all of that. But we're able to navigate all of those waters, as well.
Yeah, yeah. So what are some of the other challenges? If you are interested in developing audio content? Like what do you need to kind of consider or think about setup?
The lift is largely at the beginning when you're–well with any type of content, right, so you have to decide that has enough value that you're going to spend the brain capacity and the bandwidth and the time to work with a company like ours, so that we can help you shape that voice and shape the type of content that's really going to benefit you. So choosing that it's going to be a priority.
And then having deep, intimate communication and regular awesome content are things that you really want to do, you also need to decide in terms of you know–and we work with our companies on this–like who's going to be hosting, who's your avatar, who's your people or person that you're going to be featuring. And there's a lot of creative ways to work with that scenario, as well. Everything from solo hosts to two hosts to a panel discussion and everything in between. There's, there's a lot of different ways to manage those kinds of questions, particularly if there's multiple people inside of a company who want to be at the forefront being that avatar for the company, that's all completely manageable.
Another thing the company really needs to decide is if their marketing department, and their team, how we're going to dovetail this with their other strategic initiatives. Podcasting should be one piece and audio should be a piece of a larger strategic picture for a company. It should never be a band-aid or just an outlier. It needs to be integrated because it is something that has high strategic value, and can augment or replace creating content in other areas like blog posts, social media post images, articles for industry publications, and even events and getting used in events in different ways. So, there's a lot of applications and being willing to dive into the strategy is super important.
And what goes into that strategy? What questions are you asking or what do companies need to think about, you know, in terms of understanding kind of the bigger picture strategy before they really get into, you know, executing a particular kind of audio content strategy?
Yeah, we like to get into working with their marketing team. and finding out what are their core values that they're looking to communicate. What is that mission? What is their vision for their company, and then building out kind of an avatar of their host, not of their audience, but of their host. You know, if you had to personify your company, who is kind of that person and that spokesperson to do that? That's certainly an area that we start with, we also need to look at, as I mentioned, their current strategic initiatives. What's already working for them in terms of their marketing? How can podcasting build upon that and make it even more robust? And what are their pain points that we can address that are challenging?
So one of the pain points we run into a lot with companies is just the generation of content to begin with, particularly from a very busy team. A larger company, you know, when you ask somebody to go and say, “Hey, would you write a blog post on this?” somebody who's a technician or a salesperson or whatever, they may not be a writer to do that. Using interview techniques, we can extract and pull really wonderful, real conversational information from team members that can be pulled into podcasting content, or then even turned into articles or ebooks or, you know, other types of content, as well. And the creation process becomes 100 times easier. And this is, of course, scalable for any size company to do that, whether we're working with a sales team, or we're working with, you know, a CPA firm.
Yeah. You mentioned a couple times the idea of leveraging the content, what are some ways that you can kind of use the, the initial content, leverage it in different ways? You know, repurpose it. What are some things that companies should be thinking about when they develop a kind of a content strategy, starting with audio content?
Sure, I'll kind of walk you through a whole process, potential process flow on that. So let's say your podcast gets made, and the audio content is going out to 20-30 different audio distribution platforms, everything from Spotify to Apple podcasts and whatnot. So it lives all out in the world of public podcasting. Well, then the full edited transcript of that podcast, along with an embedded player, which has a number of features on it that are really helpful for the listener, click to tweets, and custom captioned images are all embedded on the website, usually in the form of a blog post. So we have, first, fresh content that goes into your blog.
And secondly, this is all gorgeous for your search engine optimization. Google loves fresh, long form conversational content, because Google is moving towards AI for their search engine optimization. This longer form conversational podcast content is so helpful for SEO, particularly with all the bells and whistles to kind of go along with it. So, from there, you can take the we have always have a little summary at the top and we have our quotes that are pulled out. Those are repurposed into social media posts, usually either on say a company page on LinkedIn that are then shared with the employees, shared with the team so that then they all can share those posts as well.
We also pull out short clips, little highlights from the podcast and turn them into what are called audiograms, which are little shareable, closed-caption dynamic videos. Those are also shared on social media. And one of my other favorite places to use audiograms is to embed them in related blog posts on the site that aren't necessarily the podcast episode, but maybe related content. So then you are cross-pollinating your website content and also creating a more dynamic experience for somebody visiting your website, because now you've got this lovely little 30-second to one minute long video that's breaking up the content on a related post and maybe getting people interested in staying on your website longer. Yeah, so those are just a few of the things that you can do.
We even recommend that whoever is the guest on the podcast, or even the host, depending on the situation, repurpose the link to their podcast on the publication section of their LinkedIn profile. A lot of people only use articles or blog posts, but you can use your podcast interviews as part of your publications list. And that helps build out, of course, your LinkedIn presence. For those folks of us who are in the B2B world or in the, you know, the business world. It's really nice to have that additional fresh content on your LinkedIn profile to kind of keep you top of mind for people.
So those are just a couple. Those are just a couple elements. And the other big one we see a lot of is turning podcast content into industry publication articles. So basically having writers–either folks we've introduced you to, or folks on their team. One of our companies that we work with primary tax solutions, they're a specialty tax company, and they've now had six articles based on their podcasts–content produced and published in publications like Accounting Today.
Yeah, I love that idea is like you create one piece and then you can find lots of different ways. Oh, my goodness repurposing it makes it so much easier or just create so much more leverage in terms of the work you do. What are some of the challenges? Certainly, when I started podcasting, you know, it wasn't, there was some hesitation and trepidation about kind of really getting into this and putting myself out there like that. What do you do to help folks who, you know, are considering this, but they're not quite sure they have maybe some, you know, maybe a little bit of fear around some of this stuff. You know, creating this content, really putting it out there–what are ways in which you help them kind of evaluate and create an opportunity for them to really get into this space?
It really just, it lives in the world of conversation. So, Bruce, would it be accurate to say that, you know, one of your big considerations was time?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. And that's really the biggest thing we have to talk about is, where are your priorities, and where is your time going to be, because even if we're handling 90% of what has to go into the podcast production, we're still going to need, you know, some time for the marketing team and of course, the host and things like that to spend some time in that arena. So it just really has to be a priority, and they need to be well suited. So there's a lot of evaluation that goes on at the beginning, everything from talking about, like I said, the creation of kind of this avatar. We even use thought leadership archetypes that we have developed based on the 12 Jungian archetypes to help kind of shape the brand of the podcast in conjunction with the company's brand to make sure that there's this consistent voice.
So everything that we do really lives in relationship and inquiry and curiosity. And and then from there, the strategy, but we come at it–I would say that, you know, a lot of times I'm practicing my “Business Buddha” and that means I come from a place of non-attachment. It really has to be all about the clients and not about us and seeing what's going to be best. And sometimes it's not the best solution for that company, or it's not the right time. Sometimes it's the absolute perfect time, and the company is absolutely 100% ready to go. Sometimes there's a little bit of a delay until a few ducks get in a row and we say, “Hey, you know, you really should have X, Y, and Z handled before we start this process.” So it always has to be in the best interest of the company, so that we can get the best product, because, as you know, Bruce, podcasting isn't a one and done deal. It's a long tail game. Yeah, you know, so we got to have time.
Yeah, no, let's dig into that just a little bit. ‘Cause I find I see a lot of podcasts out there that get to like episode eight.
Yeah.
You know, big plans, big ideas, and then, you know, just, you know, a big initial push, but, they just kind of fade quickly. What are some things that can help you to prevent that or will help you, you know, kind of be in it for the long game?
Well, most of our companies, we recommend starting with a bi-weekly schedule, instead of a weekly schedule. You can always add episodes. You can always add frequency as you go. But bi-weekly gives enough frequency for folks to really get content out on a regular basis without it necessarily being an overwhelming time commitment. We also work to develop out the content calendar, and make sure that we've actually got, you know, 12 or 24 potential episodes kind of planned out. And then many times we're helping with, you know, getting the guests on. You know, let's look at your networking list. Who do you want to have on and how can we help you facilitate that communication, the guest preparation and making the actual recording process as easy as possible for folks? You know, you and I both use an interface that's very easy to get on. You're using was it Tricast here. Is that what we're both on?
Yeah.
So Tricast, Squadcast, Riverside FM–there's a bunch of them that really helped make the recording process very high quality and very easy, no matter who you are, where you are, as long as you've got a relatively decent internet connection. Yeah, and we help facilitate those with live direction, sometimes, helping people actually kind of feel comfortable, relax them. We do episode preparation sometimes and actually create the outlines for episodes for companies and working with their marketing team to make it easier for them to just have a nice flow of every episode. And of course, any kind of host or guest training when it comes down to the actual vocal or interview side of things. It's really a matter of finding out what are the needs, what are the desires, and creating the right solutions to fill it. There's no cookie cutter solution.
Yeah. And are most of your clients looking to develop leads for like a lead funnel or what are the outcomes that sort of the tangible business outcomes that you're typically focused on with clients?
The tangible outcomes that clients are usually looking to focus on are multifold. Podcasting of this particular kind is a beautiful combination of relationship marketing, influence marketing, and content marketing. So we're looking to have guests chosen strategically that are not necessarily leads for their company–there's a whole philosophy of podcasting that you interview people you want to have as clients. That's not really where we live. The companies that we work with are well-established. They're doing very, very well in their fields. And this is really a move from having a brand to becoming thought leaders in an industry. So it has more to do with influence and high quality content than it does with directly getting leads.
But that being said, it usually–well, actually, it always–it always ends up in developing leads, because collaborations come out of the guests that you have on the show, out of the visibility that you have, out of the elevation in the industry of now becoming a media presence, all of those things happen, and it is largely because podcasting opens doors when it comes to relationships. You know, our clients are always looking to have high quality guests on their show, and then following up with those guests afterwards to help deepen that relationship and develop collaboration inevitably adds leads to additional opportunities and more leads 100% of the time.
Yeah. And what recommendations do you have for folks in terms of kind of picking subjects, things that you're going to weave into your conversations, finding guests? I mean, how do you go from, “Hey, I want to start a podcast, I want to, you know, have these sort of business outcomes,” to actually getting things scheduled and figuring out what you're going to talk about?
Oh, okay, that's a big world. So let's break it down just into a couple of first steps. One is to look at your values. What do you want to be known for? You know, who are you in in the world? What does your company want to be known for? And what are your brand values, the pillars that you operate by that you want to make sure it get communicated out to an audience?
Then there's a little bit of a Venn diagram. You've got your brand values and your culture, and then you have what you're really good at, you know, what's your areas of focus, and you're going to overlap those two areas on each other. And then the third area that you're going to your trifecta, a little three circle Venn diagram is going to be how do you want to communicate it?
So when you're talking about podcasting, you have to have somebody on your team who's got a proclivity towards a microphone. In some way, shape or form, they have to have a desire for it. Because otherwise you're going to end up you know, like, like Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. “Bueller, Bueller? Bueller?” It's got to be dynamic, right? You somebody who is inclined. So that you know, so then you got your format of your show. So you've got those three pieces that you want overlap to find kind of your sweet spot in podcasting. And I will say, that's where you start. Podcasting is one of those things, just like I hate to say it, a website. That is, you're always evolving over time, and you're going to have seasons. You're going to have segments, you're going to evolve it over time. So you got to start with where you're most comfortable and most seasoned in your expertise, and then you're going to evolve and grow it from there.
Tina, this has been a pleasure if people want to find out more about you about the work that you do, what's the best way to get that information?
You can just hop over to twinflamesstudios.com and we are there. There's samples of our work. You can reach us there and we're happy to connect with you and explore, no matter where you're at in the process.
That's great. I will make sure that all the links are in the show notes here. Tina, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time today.
Thank you, Bruce.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. Be sure to subscribe using your favorite podcast app, so you don't miss our future episodes. See you next time.
About Scaling Up ServicesScaling Up Services is a podcast devoted to helping founders, partners, CEOs, key executives, and managers of service-based businesses scale their companies faster and with less drama. For more information and a list of recent episodes, please visit www.scalingupservices.com.
About Eckfeldt & AssociatesEckfeldt & Associates is a strategic coaching and advisory firm based in New York City and servicing growth companies around the world. Founded and led by Inc. 500 CEO Bruce Eckfeldt, E&A helps founders, CEOs, and leadership teams develop highly differentiated business strategies and create high-performance leadership teams who can execute with focus and rigor. Leveraging the Scaling Up, 3HAG, and Predictive Index toolsets, the firm has worked with a wide range of dynamic industries including technology, professional services, real estate, healthcare, pharmaceutical, and cannabis/hemp. For more information, please visit www.eckfeldt.com or email at info@eckfeldt.com.
